What was Mirri Maz Duur actually saying?

[Nymeria_Stark]

Think about the books as a whole. Everything GRRM wrote, everything the characters said or thought could possibly be interpreted in any number of ways. As an aspiring fantasy novelist, I have to admire characters who speak in riddles, regardless of their intentions in the story itself. Toward the end of book 1, when Daenerys finds Khal Drogo watching the sunset after Mirri Maz Duur "saved" him, Dany asks MMD when Drogo will be as he was.

 

(PS, sorry for the long post, I've just got a lot to say.)

 

Here's MMD's answer:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east... When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Why did Martin write MMD's line this way?

Obviously in the books, Dany is still in Slaver's Bay, in Mereen, but in the show, she's now taking Westeros by storm! SO, here's my theory connecting East and West...

PART 1: "When the sun rises in the west..."

Which house sigil features a sun? House Martell.

Where is their seat? SUNspear.

Assuming Martin goes in a different direction from the show, I believe House Martell could join the war in support of Daenerys and venture north out of Dorne.

The SUN RISING IN THE WEST could possibly foreshadow the Dornish army taking over the Westerlands (now that Tywin's dead and Tyrion is headed for Daenerys), making Casterly Rock into their military base, at least for now.

PART 2: "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves..."

The SEAS GOING DRY could refer to the end of House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands. Who remembers way back when Jojen and Meera Reed were with Bran in Winterfell? Y'all remember Jojen telling Bran of his dream where the seas close in and flood Winterfell? Shortly after that, Theon Greyjoy took control of Winterfell!

Then there's THE MOUNTAINS BLOWING IN THE WIND LIKE LEAVES. I'm sure by now that EVERYONE who watches the show is anxiously looking forward to Cleganebowl! I'll admit I am too. BUT will Martin pull this off in the books as well? If so, I see MMD's line foreshadowing Sandor (AKA the Hound) coming out on top, bringing about the end of the Mountain.

PART 3: "When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child."

At this point in the show, Daenerys is with Jon and they were consummating their love, despite being related. I ask you, what's the point of everything if she doesn't get pregnant? Now here's where MMD's prophesy gets a bit more tricky. After everything, she says, "...Then he will return, and not before." She didn't specify THEN DROGO WILL RETURN, she just said HE. Thinking out of context, HE could mean any man in Dany's life, or just the right man for the story's sake! MEANING...

Dany + Jon = full public resurrection of the Targaryen line

D + J = the end of the Night King

             the end of the White Walkers

             the end of any possible future Long Nights

 

In short, I believe MMD's prophesy in the east is referring to events in the west, where the more prominent parts of the story take place!

 

What do y'all think??

[chrisdaw]

It is literal, only "returns" means Drogo will be strong and fierce again as per Dany's question.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

4 hours ago, Nymeria_Stark said:

At this point in the show, Daenerys is with Jon and they were consummating their love, despite being related.

Not likely to be appreciated by those who don't watch the show. I'd suggest editing it to remove that, as it's not relevant to a discussion about the books.

4 hours ago, Nymeria_Stark said:

what's the point of everything if she doesn't get pregnant?

In my experience people tend to enjoy sex even if it doesn't result in pregnancy...

[SirArthur]

5 hours ago, Nymeria_Stark said:

D + J = the end of the Night King

             the end of the White Walkers

             the end of any possible future Long Nights

good that there is no Night King then 

54 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Not likely to be appreciated by those who don't watch the show. I'd suggest editing it to remove that, as it's not relevant to a discussion about the books.

I don't think the text makes sense without the show. 

 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

6 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

I don't think the text makes sense without the show. 

Then probably best to delete the whole thing if it can't be reworked.

[Lord Lannister]

I think people look -way- too much into this line. It was a comment meant to wound and a grandiloquent was of saying never. Not some sort of prophecy.

[Moiraine Sedai]

43 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think people look -way- too much into this line. It was a comment meant to wound and a grandiloquent was of saying never. Not some sort of prophecy.

Could be.  Remember though.  The questioned was asked while Drogo was still alive.  What is the need for a baby to bring him back to what he was?  Sacrifice.  The sacrifice of a child can bring Drogo back to his former self.  The sacrifice of an innocent lamb is important in religion.  Now that Drogo is ashes it won't happen.

[John Suburbs]

3 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think people look -way- too much into this line. It was a comment meant to wound and a grandiloquent was of saying never. Not some sort of prophecy.

My take as well. She's just spouting off, trying to hurt Dany emotionally.

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Could be.  Remember though.  The questioned was asked while Drogo was still alive.  What is the need for a baby to bring him back to what he was?  Sacrifice.  The sacrifice of a child can bring Drogo back to his former self.  The sacrifice of an innocent lamb is important in religion.  Now that Drogo is ashes it won't happen.

He wasn't exactly his old self, though. An empty shell.

6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think people look -way- too much into this line. It was a comment meant to wound and a grandiloquent was of saying never. Not some sort of prophecy.

So is it possible that Daenerys was incapable of bearing an actual living child? 

[LindsayLohan]

I texted my good friend George RR Martin, and he provided me with a translation of Mirri's singing at her death, to the Common Tongue.

"Holy fuck this burns!"

[Megorova]

Maybe MMD meant Rhaego, that he will return, after all those events will happen - death of Martell in the east, fall of House Greyjoy, fall of the Mountain, etc. So when Dany will become pregnant again, that's when her son, Rhaego, will be returned to her.

[Starkz]

I always thought it meant when Dany had a child, she would die and Drogo would take her to the afterlife, however I also think “he” could be referencing to love returning to her but then I think did she actually love Drogo? If it is to be taken as a prophecy I find the most obvious answer to be she will die in child birth and return to Drogo. Of course it can also be that Mirri was just saying impossible things as metaphors to the fact that he will never return but it does seem like some of what she’s said has come to pass.

[Moiraine Sedai]

18 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He wasn't exactly his old self, though. An empty shell.

So is it possible that Daenerys was incapable of bearing an actual living child? 

This is possible.  Mhysa is the mother to the former slaves who owe their freedom to her. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

18 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He wasn't exactly his old self, though. An empty shell.

So is it possible that Daenerys was incapable of bearing an actual living child? 

A child sacrifice might give his soul back.  It's too late now.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 9/4/2018 at 9:48 PM, Nymeria_Stark said:

Here's MMD's answer:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east... When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Quentyn, the Sun's son was born in westeros and died after heading east 
The Dothraki sea, once green is now dry
Gregor was taken down
Dany miscarries on the dothraki sea. 

All she needs is a child 

[Damon_Tor]

On 9/4/2018 at 9:48 PM, Nymeria_Stark said:

Now here's where MMD's prophesy gets a bit more tricky. After everything, she says, "...Then he will return, and not before." She didn't specify THEN DROGO WILL RETURN, she just said HE.

I assume she meant Rhaego.

[Damon_Tor]

22 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

My take as well. She's just spouting off, trying to hurt Dany emotionally.

I would say so as well, but GRRM referred to it as a prophecy when asked about it. I'm not sure why he'd call it that if she was just being mean.

[chrisdaw]

7 hours ago, Starkz said:

but then I think did she actually love Drogo?

Yes, he's the only one she ever has and ever will. She's wandering the Dothraki Sea thinking she's going to die and thinking how she isn't going to be reunited with Drogo without anyone there to burn her body.

You're right, she'll have a child and die (though it won't be in childbirth) and return to Drogo. But the afterlife they will be reunited in is a literal second life inside of Drogon, Rhaego is there too and that's the three heads. After they burn her body, can't second life a dragon without burning, that's why Targs do it.

[Starkz]

17 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Yes, he's the only one she ever has and ever will. She's wandering the Dothraki Sea thinking she's going to die and thinking how she isn't going to be reunited with Drogo without anyone there to burn her body.

You're right, she'll have a child and die (though it won't be in childbirth) and return to Drogo. But the afterlife they will be reunited in is a literal second life inside of Drogon, Rhaego is there too and that's the three heads. After they burn her body, can't second life a dragon without burning, that's why Targs do it.

I see a lot of people claiming it is Stockholm syndrome which makes a lot of sense. In the afterlife he’ll take her to the night lands which is what I believe Mirri is referring to.

[chrisdaw]

18 minutes ago, Starkz said:

I see a lot of people claiming it is Stockholm syndrome which makes a lot of sense. In the afterlife he’ll take her to the night lands which is what I believe Mirri is referring to.

It is not any syndrome, it is just love.