Football: The art of lowering expectations

[lacuna]

5 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Really the biggest difference Solskjaer can make is on the man management side of things. He isn't going to have a huge impact on the tactical side as it's very difficult to reverse 2+ years of tactical training midseason. His job is to just hold down the fort until the end of the season while the club, hopefully, hires a DoF and then makes every effort to get Poch at the end of the season. 

I'm not so sure about that. A few players he would have worked with during his time at the academy and some would have been around when he was still a player. While he isn't a fancy big name, he's still regarded as a club legend - that does carry some weight. Mike Phelan, SAF's trusted assistant, should be a big help too. Besides, I can think of no player at United who has a history of issues with professionalism or leading dressing room revolts against a manager. 

Well, he always was the quintessential super sub. If he's true to form, United will win the league this year. Possibly in overtime. 

But really, matters won't be improved by the busy Christmas schedule coming up either, leaving less time to make the style changes fans are clamoring for. It's going to be really tough going.

[Consigliere]

22 minutes ago, lacuna said:

Well, he always was the quintessential super sub. If he's true to form, United will win the league this year. Possibly in overtime. 

But really, matters won't be improved by the busy Christmas schedule coming up either, leaving less time to make the style changes fans are clamoring for. It's going to be really tough going.

I doubt Solskjaer is going to make much of a difference to the style and his job is not actually to transform the style (he's only here until the end of the season afterall). Maybe we become a bit more proactive but reversing 2+ years of tactical training in the middle of the season is not happening. Like I said, the biggest impact he can make is on the man management side of things. 

[mormont]

55 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I doubt Solskjaer is going to make much of a difference to the style and his job is not actually to transform the style (he's only here until the end of the season afterall). Maybe we become a bit more proactive but reversing 2+ years of tactical training in the middle of the season is not happening. Like I said, the biggest impact he can make is on the man management side of things. 

Do Man U even currently have a style? 

I mean, they have the default Mourinho grind-it-out style of playing two or even three defensive midfielders and ceding possession. But the great criticism of Mourinho's tactics at Man U is that he had no attacking strategy (unless you count Release The Fellaini as a strategy). Solskjaer's first job will surely be to impose one. And sort out the defence, perhaps. 

[Consigliere]

3 minutes ago, mormont said:

Do Man U even currently have a style? 

I mean, they have the default Mourinho grind-it-out style of playing two or even three defensive midfielders and ceding possession. But the great criticism of Mourinho's tactics at Man U is that he had no attacking strategy (unless you count Release The Fellaini as a strategy). Solskjaer's first job will surely be to impose one. And sort out the defence, perhaps. 

I mean, I expect both Solskjaer and Phelan to try and implement a style. I'm just not sure how much the style can be changed in the middle of the season where there isn't much time between games and thus the focus will mostly be on preparation for the next game rather than coaching. We probably won't set up as negatively but I'm not expecting fluid attacking play. A coach needs a preseason to lay down those foundations.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

I doubt Solskjaer is going to make much of a difference to the style and his job is not actually to transform the style (he's only here until the end of the season afterall). Maybe we become a bit more proactive but reversing 2+ years of tactical training in the middle of the season is not happening. Like I said, the biggest impact he can make is on the man management side of things. 

United have looked quite good in the moments where they are already behind and seemingly have nothing to lose.. its possible that by simply giving the players a bit more freedom they will improve. 

The current tactic of lumping it up to Lukaku ( who has zero first touch) clearly doesn't work.. so anything else is better.

[Consigliere]

31 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The current tactic of lumping it up to Lukaku ( who has zero first touch) clearly doesn't work.. so anything else is better.

Using Lukaku as a target man was never a good idea. Despite his physique, he has never been a good target man. If Mourinho wanted that type of CF, he should have targeted Costa or Giroud. Lukaku is far more effective running down the channels and in behind. Facing the opposition goal, he's difficult to deal with; with his back to goal however he's pretty easy to deal with. I remember some of our games against Everton under LVG where they also tried to use Lukaku as a target man and he got pocketed by Daley Blind.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

Solskjaer's first job will surely be to impose one. And sort out the defence, perhaps. 

I think this is where Solskjaer will most likely start. Getting some defensive shape back. Getting attack ideas going much more difficult and requires more time. It's not like he can just say, C'mon lads, we're from now going to play attacking football. Go out there and show the world your inner Barca players.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Using Lukaku as a target man was never a good idea. Despite his physique, he has never been a good target man. If Mourinho wanted that type of CF, he should have targeted Costa or Giroud. Lukaku is far more effective running down the channels and in behind. Facing the opposition goal, he's difficult to deal with; with his back to goal however he's pretty easy to deal with. I remember some of our games against Everton under LVG where they also tried to use Lukaku as a target man and he got pocketed by Daley Blind.

I never considered Lukaku a good buy, and funnily he's really not a Mourinho type of player. He doesn't hold the ball up well at all, his off the ball running is pretty uninspired at times and he can often be spotted just standing around. I think Jose always knew that which is why I was so suprised that they bought him. 

[Joey Crows]

Arsenal vs Spurs in the Cuppity Cup Cup today. For once I'm not going to lower my expectations. Did I just jinx the Gunners?

[polishgenius]

7 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

It's not like he can just say, C'mon lads, we're from now going to play attacking football. Go out there and show the world your inner Barca players.

No, but he can say 'Lukaku isn't a hold-up man and Pogba's one of the best passing players in the world. Romelu, Marcus and Anthony you make runs in behind, Poggers you pass to them'. It isn't going to take a revolution to make us massively more attack-minded than we have been.

[BigFatCoward]

10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

No, but he can say 'Lukaku isn't a hold-up man and Pogba's one of the best passing players in the world. Romelu, Marcus and Anthony you make runs in behind, Poggers you pass to them'. It isn't going to take a revolution to make us massively more attack-minded than we have been.

Yep. There is mote than enough attacking talent in that squad to make it an exciting team. They aren't going to win anything anyway, so have some fun. 

[Heartofice]

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/manchester-united/360/blog/post/3732658/manchester-uniteds-decision-to-hire-solskjaer-may-be-the-most-surprising-appointment-in-premier-league-history?src=com

Nice article by the ever excellent Michael Cox on why 'knowing the club' is such a silly term.

I've never understood pundits who say a job should be given to someone based on previously playing for that club. Unless you have been living underground for 20 years, you would be aware of how fans feel about the club or what kind of football they expect.

What does Solskjaer's previous time there really give him knowledge of? The location of the nearest toilet? Might be useful I guess.

[Iskaral Pust]

@Heartofice I think it’s just a sop to fans.  Giggs or Carrick could have offered similar, but Solskjaer has more experience of actual club management.  But there is no other reason why they could not have sought Ranieri, for example, as a caretaker before Fulham got him.  Instead the club wants to signal a return to the Ferguson era, and they know fans will be more patient with a former player.  

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

@Heartofice I think it’s just a sop to fans.  Giggs or Carrick could have offered similar, but Solskjaer has more experience of actual club management.  But there is no other reason why they could not have sought Ranieri, for example, as a caretaker before Fulham got him.  Instead the club wants to signal a return to the Ferguson era, and they know fans will be more patient with a former player.  

Yeah its really just a diversion so that nobody starts asking the real questions about how the board is running the club.

[MercenaryChef]

solskjaer is innocuous. he is a friendly face,  a club legend and is safe. he is exactly what they need right now.  this season is a loss. chances are they won't make into into the champions league. 

but it shouldn't be hard to ger better performances from the players. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Tough game for Liverpool at Wolves, who have done well against the top 6 this season and who are on a nice run of form themselves. 

Liverpool players have had a decent rest since the Sunday game, but there may still be rotation ahead of more games on the 26th, 29th, 3rd, 7th etc.  But we don’t have fewer than four days between games over the weeks ahead, which is better than the holiday schedule most years. 

[Iskaral Pust]

1 minute ago, MercurialCannibal said:

but it shouldn't be hard to ger better performances from the players. 

At this point I expect the players to improve even with no manager, like a Sunday morning park team.  They have huge motivation to improve now to show it was Mourinho at fault rather than them. 

[Heartofice]

https://www.football365.com/news/pogba-after-jose-sacking-he-fked-with-the-wrong-baller

Pogba rumoured to be high-fiving people after Jose's sacking. Seems he was rather annoyed that Jose wanted him to be more like Lampard.  " Lampard didn't win the World Cup" was his response.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

17 hours ago, polishgenius said:

No, but he can say 'Lukaku isn't a hold-up man and Pogba's one of the best passing players in the world. Romelu, Marcus and Anthony you make runs in behind, Poggers you pass to them'. It isn't going to take a revolution to make us massively more attack-minded than we have been.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Which route are they supposed to run - more o the touchline or rather cut inside, then they should ideally not run into the same place. And the timing of running and passing has to be more or less accurate. So I wouldn't expect things to work out immediately. Esp. with the busy christmas schedule approaching.

Just now, Iskaral Pust said:

 I think it’s just a sop to fans.  Giggs or Carrick could have offered similar, but Solskjaer has more experience of actual club management.  But there is no other reason why they could not have sought Ranieri, for example, as a caretaker before Fulham got him.  Instead the club wants to signal a return to the Ferguson era, and they know fans will be more patient with a former player.  

No. I think Giggs and Carrick are somewhat too close to the current playing squad. They played with a few of the current players, and I think it can be difficult to get the right distance between yourself and your former team-mates. Yes, it is doable, but I think Solskjaer is the safer option, and he has more experience on being at charge of a club.

And I also think, Solskjaer is just there to give Woodward time to establish a different set up with the DoF coming in next, who may or may not try to sign Poch from Spurs. So unless United continues to disappoint result wise (I think something like pos 8-10 without any signs of improvement would see Solskjaer leaving the club early), he will be there for the season and then go back to Norway or find new job above Molde, but below United in clubs size.

Yes, Solskjaer has the upside, that as former fan favorite fans are not likely to turn on him after 5 games. As more disrutpion is the last thing the club wants/needs. But like I said, if United falls below a certain position more or less permanently, I'd consider it possible that Solskjaer will get sacked, too.

[BigFatCoward]

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Which route are they supposed to run - more o the touchline or rather cut inside, then they should ideally not run into the same place. And the timing of running and passing has to be more or less accurate. 

Managers don't do that shit. And if players needed to be told that they wouldn't be players.