Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I always wonder, with weaker actors, how much of what we see on screen is the direction/writing and how much is the actor's lack of range. Emilia, Sophie, and Kit have a lot of these deadpan moments. We know they're sometimes directed to be that way (ex: Sansa watching Ramsay's death), but maybe a more experienced actor like Dinklage could have still managed to convey emotion in the same place.

So to give an example, what would have been a more appropriate response to that scene (not counting thanking Ramsay)?

[Count Balerion]

I suspect a lot of what Emilia and the other actors get blamed for is more down to the direction/writing. D&D have a way of micromanaging actors' facial expressions. TPTF: These Performances, These Faces. Dany's death being an example.

[Le Cygne]

18 hours ago, SeanF said:

Until they transformed her into Her Satanic Majesty/Fraulein Hitler, Daenerys was portrayed as consistently badass by D & D.

Whereas in the novels, she's frequently afraid/self-doubting/self-critical, as well as quite warm and funny on occasions. I tend to think that the decision to suppress all that was taken by D & D.

Yes. Basically they chose to suppress the humanity of the characters. It's like the show was written by aliens who don't get human beings (or like them).

In terms of acting, the good performances were from the experienced actors. The experienced ones resisted assimilation. Resistance is not futile.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Le Cygne

[Angel Eyes]

Suggestion about Season 8, Episode 4: The Last of the Starks: is it possible that D&D just decided to salt the earth regarding shipping characters? Because we had various romantic pairings common in the fandom go down the drain in that one episode:

• Arya turns down Gendry’s marriage proposal
• Jon refuses sex with Daenerys after finding out they’re related
• Brienne turns down Tormund
• Jaime rejects Brienne after they have sex
• Sansa gets nobody

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Suggestion about Season 8, Episode 4: The Last of the Starks: is it possible that D&D just decided to salt the earth regarding shipping characters? Because we had various romantic pairings common in the fandom go down the drain in that one episode:

• Arya turns down Gendry’s marriage proposal
• Jon refuses sex with Daenerys after finding out they’re related
• Brienne turns down Tormund
• Jaime rejects Brienne after they have sex
• Sansa gets nobody

Writing romance was beyond D & D (admittedly, it is difficult to do well).

[kissdbyfire]

16 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Writing romance was beyond D & D (admittedly, it is difficult to do well).

FTFY.

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Writing romance was beyond D & D (admittedly, it is difficult to do well).

George Lucas could certainly sympathize.

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Writing romance was beyond D & D (admittedly, it is difficult to do well).

I would go beyond that. They don't even know how to write passably.

Romance isn't hard to write, there are so many great stories to follow. They didn't even try. They just wanted everyone to end up dead or alone.

They even wiped out the reason for marriages back then, to continue their lines. There's no need for the human race to continue. See, they are aliens!

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

I would go beyond that. They don't even know how to write passably.

Romance isn't hard to write, there are so many great stories to follow. They didn't even try. They just wanted everyone to end up dead or alone.

They even wiped out the reason for marriages back then, to continue their lines. There's no need for the human race to continue. See, they are aliens!

I enjoy writing stories of various kinds.  I think I do political/military/economic matters pretty well.  I couldn't write romance well to save my life. Some people are brilliant at it.  If D & D were incapable of writing romance (which they were) all they needed to do was bring someone in to do the job.

[Ser Drewy]

They basically just removed the romantic elements and the romanticism from the show. I found it odd, actually, how back in S3 they split Storm into two seasons, which led to a fair bit of filler material in those seasons - such as Theon's torture or the 'Kill the mutineers' plot - but they somehow managed to underwrite Jon's time with the wildlings. They essentially diluted it down to its basic plot, losing much of Jon's inner conflict and reducing his relationship with Ygritte substantially; which is unfortunate as she's his window into wildling culture. They simply became gruff warriors in the shows, all the humanising elements (like Mance's red cloak, Tormund's family) were removed or heavily reduced, and the romanticism found in Ygritte's tales - like Bael the Bard, the Last of the Giants - was lost as well. But we got Theon being flayed for like 30 minutes and Pod having such great sex skills that brothel's won't take his money. Totally compelling material there .... my hunch is they just didn't care to adapt those elements. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Ser Drewy

[kissdbyfire]

15 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

The show basically just removed the romantic elements and the romanticism from the show. I found it odd, actually, how back in S3 they split Storm into two seasons, which led to a fair bit of filler material in those seasons - such as Theon's torture or the 'Kill the mutineers' plot - but they somehow managed to underwrite Jon's time with the wildlings. They essentially diluted it down to its basic plot, losing much of Jon's inner conflict and reducing his relationship with Ygritte substantially; which is unfortunate as she's his window into wildling culture. They simply became gruff warriors in the shows, all the humanising elements (like Mance's red cloak, Tormund's family) were removed or heavily reduced, and the romanticism found in Ygritte's tales - like Bael the Bard, the Last of the Giants - was lost as well. But we got Theon being flayed for like 30 minutes and Pod having such great sex skills that brothel's won't take his money. Totally compelling material there .... my hunch is they just didn't care to adapt those elements. 

Oh man, now you’ve made me remember all that crap!

And nothing against the actor, I think he’s brilliant, but I will never forgive them for the buffoon they turned show Tormund into, yikes. 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Ser Drewy said:

The show basically just removed the romantic elements and the romanticism from the show. I found it odd, actually, how back in S3 they split Storm into two seasons, which led to a fair bit of filler material in those seasons - such as Theon's torture or the 'Kill the mutineers' plot - but they somehow managed to underwrite Jon's time with the wildlings. They essentially diluted it down to its basic plot, losing much of Jon's inner conflict and reducing his relationship with Ygritte substantially; which is unfortunate as she's his window into wildling culture. They simply became gruff warriors in the shows, all the humanising elements (like Mance's red cloak, Tormund's family) were removed or heavily reduced, and the romanticism found in Ygritte's tales - like Bael the Bard, the Last of the Giants - was lost as well. But we got Theon being flayed for like 30 minutes and Pod having such great sex skills that brothel's won't take his money. Totally compelling material there .... my hunch is they just didn't care to adapt those elements. 

And after the great dialogue scene between Oberyn and Tyrion, we get the cousin Orso? Othor? story.  

I don't remember which scene it was exactly, but around season 4, I think, I wanted to cry while watching another pointless and emotionless dialogue scene, while thinking of all the great material from the books they were ignoring.

[kissdbyfire]

26 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

And after the great dialogue scene between Oberyn and Tyrion, we get the cousin Orso? Othor? story.  

I don't remember which scene it was exactly, but around season 4, I think, I wanted to cry while watching another pointless and emotionless dialogue scene, while thinking of all the great material from the books they were ignoring.

Ah, the infamous scene, cousin Orson and the beetles. Some speculated it was a jab at author Orson Scott Card as payback for his comments on GoT. All I can say is he is pretty spot on, and that’s after watching only eps 1 & 2. I wonder if he’s said anything about later series, especially the last 3 or 4.

[Count Balerion]

Yikes, Orson's beetles. I guess they had to do something once they cut out Jaime's Tysha confession. Despite that being an ongoing plot element mentioned earlier in season 4. I wasn't at all a ranter during season 4. But the beetles made me cringe. (It seemed to go on for ever, too.)

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ah, the infamous scene, cousin Orson and the beetles. Some speculated it was a jab at author Orson Scott Card as payback for his comments on GoT. All I can say is he is pretty spot on, and that’s after watching only eps 1 & 2. I wonder if he’s said anything about later series, especially the last 3 or 4.

I guess D&D have long memories if that's the case...when it comes to petty vindictiveness. They certainly can't remember their own story.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Corvinus85

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I guess D&D have long memories if that's the case...when it comes to petty vindictiveness. They certainly can't remember their own story.

There was so much petty vindictiveness.  They bragged that when the actor who played Ser Barristan objected to his death, it made them more determined to include it.  Or the comments about the size of Jon's dick and jokes about his height. And when Esme Bianco asked for a bigger part for Ros than just getting her clothes off, they had Joffrey torture her to death, naked.

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

And after the great dialogue scene between Oberyn and Tyrion, we get the cousin Orso? Othor? story.  

I don't remember which scene it was exactly, but around season 4, I think, I wanted to cry while watching another pointless and emotionless dialogue scene, while thinking of all the great material from the books they were ignoring.

Just another example of the books spoonfeeding them some wonderful dialogue, and they preferring to come up with some crap of their own.

[SeanF]

8 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Yikes, Orson's beetles. I guess they had to do something once they cut out Jaime's Tysha confession. Despite that being an ongoing plot element mentioned earlier in season 4. I wasn't at all a ranter during season 4. But the beetles made me cringe. (It seemed to go on for ever, too.)

Not only is Tyrion haunted by what happened to Tysha, and his murder of Shae,  in the books, from a psychological point of view, he ought to be haunted by them.  In the show, they barely registered.

[Angel Eyes]

12 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Yikes, Orson's beetles. I guess they had to do something once they cut out Jaime's Tysha confession. Despite that being an ongoing plot element mentioned earlier in season 4. I wasn't at all a ranter during season 4. But the beetles made me cringe. (It seemed to go on for ever, too.)

I took that for a cosmic horror story about the senselessness of life; there’s fan art of GRRM as Orson.

[Count Balerion]

18 hours ago, SeanF said:

Not only is Tyrion haunted by what happened to Tysha, and his murder of Shae,  in the books, from a psychological point of view, he ought to be haunted by them.  In the show, they barely registered.

After murdering Shae, he becomes Good, If Stupid.

And: there's no denying the beetles were a horror.