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Conclusion of the tale - Cersei as the ultimate Villain - problems galore.

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

No one important died in the scouring of the shire.  So, unless you think that no one important is going to die in the back half of the final season, then as a parallel, it doesn't really fit.  Cersei isn't portrayed as a washed up evil doer getting a last dig in, she's got a fresh army, a mad scientist, a zombie warrior,  and several dragon killing machines.  I expect the death toll fighting her will be higher than fighting the Night King, so it would be like if Frodo or Sam or Aegon died cleaning up the Shire.

I agree it's a bad comparison.

Comparing LOTR to GOT is like comparing a blue diamond to a Musgravite. I'd rather rewatch ROTK over season 8 EVEN if they kill ofF every major character. That's not what GOT was all about. They used to kill off major characters in the early seasons BUT that wasn't why it was great. It was the story. And the last few seasons no major character died but that's not why I have a problem with it, it's the story or lack thereof. And Cersei is way past her expiration date as a villain. She has overstayed her welcome as a character. She's like a worse version of the NK at this point. Just evil for the sake of evil. Yes in LOTR no main characters died. But it still sits as the greatest trilogy of all time. It's an incredible piece of filmmaking. Even GRRM, HBO take great inspiration from that. You know you still can create a great story without killing major characters right ? When Aragorn became King and the hobbits bowed to him and he replied ''My friends, you bow to no one'' as the hobbits stand up and everyone else around them bows (signifying that no matter how small or weak you are, you can still stand tall above everyone else).1 small scene that meant so much. I cared for these characters. Honestly, with 3 episodes left. I don't really care about any of the characters anymore (well maybe Tyrion a bit, just like GRRM I have a soft spot for cripples, bastards and broken things). I don't care if Jon dies, Dany, Arya, Sansa. I don't really care who sits on the throne (they'll probably destroy the throne). And that's the real problem. You might say ''then why are you watching ?''. When I start watching and loving a show, I have to see it through till the end (no matter how bad it gets sadly). I'll still watch it till the end, hoping for a semi decent ending. But at this point, my expectations are super low.

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On 5/1/2019 at 2:55 PM, Bradam said:

everyone seems to forget the Lord of the Rings didn't end with Sauron's death.  The arguably more important story was after that the hobbits returned home expecting to relax and chill and tell hobbit stories when instead they found out Treebeard let Sauramon go because he was tired of watching him and Sauraman returned to the Shire and trashed the place and enslaved all the hobbits.  So then they had to clean thier literal house out before the story ended.  Peter Jackson decided to nix that whole story and just had Sauraman die on his tower. 

Heheh 

Given the splitting of the Hobbit into three, it is pretty clear they would have made the harrying of the shire a whole film in its own right these days.

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39 minutes ago, hallam said:

Heheh 

Given the splitting of the Hobbit into three, it is pretty clear they would have made the harrying of the shire a whole film in its own right these days.

That'd prolly have made a better film then half of what they did to the hobbit  =0

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Posted (edited)

I just don't understand the logic behind "It's called a Game of Thrones not blah blah blah". They may have taken the name from the first book and named the tv show after it but that was for simplicity sake and everything else about the show compared to the books and the message it is trying to get across is suppose to be and were the same (even into seasons 5-7 which butchered the remaining plot lines and characters they took from the books). In both book and show it has been pretty clear from the beginning that the "Game of Thrones" was always irrelevant and in the end gonna be the downfall of this society and the people in it as they ignore the real threat and that they need to band together to survive or die. To turn that message on it's head in the end when that message that was originally being conveyed was shown to still be valid just for the sole purpose of "subverting expectations" up to that point is terrible story telling. Ask Star Wars fans how "subverting expectations" worked out for their franchise....

 

"Ahhh who cares about the ice zombies coming for us all I wanna know who's gonna sit their ass on that uncomfortable chair that doesn't matter!"

 

A lot of fans of the show and the actual writers are acting like the actual characters in the south in the story who are more concerned about the Throne than the White Walkers....which is just massively disappointing to me because it seems even they didn't get George's message. If it wasn't already clear before I think it is safe to say it wasn't just George's remaining two unfinished books that caused him to quit contributing to this show.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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The moral of the series is that selfishness is the correct response to any crisis. 

Noble, selfless people who try to help others, see the bigger picture, show mercy, are losers, honor gets you killed.

 

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20 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

No one important died in the scouring of the shire.  So, unless you think that no one important is going to die in the back half of the final season, then as a parallel, it doesn't really fit.  Cersei isn't portrayed as a washed up evil doer getting a last dig in, she's got a fresh army, a mad scientist, a zombie warrior,  and several dragon killing machines.  I expect the death toll fighting her will be higher than fighting the Night King, so it would be like if Frodo or Sam or Aegon died cleaning up the Shire.

I’m just talking structurally. Defeat of the big bad (Sauron/The Others), Calm and Beginning to Rebuild (Aragorn’s return to MT, whatever we get episode 4), Confronting the final villain (Saruman/Cersei and Euron), conclusion. Obviously i wasnt trying to say its a one for one comparison but the basic structure is there. 

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So I have been pondering this for a bit. In the books that have yet to be released, where do you think GRRM will resolve "THE OTHERS"? At the End of the The Winds of Winter? OR will they continue into A Dream Of Spring?

If you follow the logic, You would think that the The Others are Resolved at the end of the Winds of Winter, and A Dream of Spring is dedicated to resolution of the story and possible generations to come after these events. 

A lot of the Ire from S8E3 is because it is believed that GRRM would extend the Others conflict to the end and it would be the true Big Bad Guy in the stories. But what if GRRM himself pays more attention to the conflicts between the houses of Westeros, would that change your opinion?

The consensus seems to be that D&D took the series into their own hands and just took off, and while I would admit that the actual dialogue and importance to the words being spoken the last two seasons have dropped off because of a lack of direct source material, I think it is a disservice to imagine that D&D having received GRRM's consultation and direction of how GRRM will end ASOIAF,  will just throw that out and completely go in a different direction. I think generally the same basic story lines will be present in both the books and the series. ( I don't think Cersei will sit on the throne in the Show, and Daenerys will sit on the throne in the books)

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

The war of seven kings? Which seven kings?

And how has the Night King plot line been resolved? Can you please enlighten us on how Bran's powers work? Why does the Night King want to destroy humankind? If he did want to destroy humankind, why didn't have most of his army march around Winterfell while he took care of Bran? And can you please help us understand why Bran was so important if he did absolutely nothing this episode.

Joffery Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renley Baratheon, and (books only) Aegon Blackfyre claim the Iron throne. Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy declared independence. Theon then claims Balon's throne in the books.

If you want more detail on the Night King plot line, you are going to have to wait for the books to come out. It seems very likely that WoW is near to completion if not completed and waiting for the show to finish.

Bran, Robb and Danny all played critical roles in getting the Night King into position for Arya to strike. Bran gave Arya the blade he knew she would need and was bringing the NK towards him. Robb and Danny held off the army of the dead while the NK arrived.

Oh and if people actually took note of the books they would quickly realize that there is going to be a Night King figure even if it isn't the exact same one as in the show.

Edited by hallam

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3 hours ago, hallam said:

Joffery Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renley Baratheon, and (books only) Aegon Blackfyre claim the Iron throne. Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy declared independence. Theon then claims Balon's throne in the books.

If you want more detail on the Night King plot line, you are going to have to wait for the books to come out. It seems very likely that WoW is near to completion if not completed and waiting for the show to finish.

Bran, Robb and Danny all played critical roles in getting the Night King into position for Arya to strike. Bran gave Arya the blade he knew she would need and was bringing the NK towards him. Robb and Danny held off the army of the dead while the NK arrived.

Oh and if people actually took note of the books they would quickly realize that there is going to be a Night King figure even if it isn't the exact same one as in the show.

Robb?

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4 hours ago, hallam said:

Joffery Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renley Baratheon, and (books only) Aegon Blackfyre claim the Iron throne. Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy declared independence. Theon then claims Balon's throne in the books.

If you want more detail on the Night King plot line, you are going to have to wait for the books to come out. It seems very likely that WoW is near to completion if not completed and waiting for the show to finish.

Bran, Robb and Danny all played critical roles in getting the Night King into position for Arya to strike. Bran gave Arya the blade he knew she would need and was bringing the NK towards him. Robb and Danny held off the army of the dead while the NK arrived.

Oh and if people actually took note of the books they would quickly realize that there is going to be a Night King figure even if it isn't the exact same one as in the show.

Theon has not claimed Balon's throne. How can he when he is struggling to re-embrace his first name?

Besides, you named only six kings. 

Bran can't see the future.

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16 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Theon has not claimed Balon's throne. How can he when he is struggling to re-embrace his first name?

Besides, you named only six kings. 

Bran can't see the future.

It is not clear whether Bran can see into the future or not. The three eyed crow implies he can when he says he was waiting for him. 

The war of seven kings is a book thing, not a show thing where there are only five. But even in the books there is a digression about how some of the Maesters dispute the term as there weren't seven kings at once.

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12 hours ago, TheWolfOfCambridge said:

If you follow the logic, You would think that the The Others are Resolved at the end of the Winds of Winter, and A Dream of Spring is dedicated to resolution of the story and possible generations to come after these events. 

I think ADoS entirety will be about The Long Night. At least most of the book will.  The question is if they will survive The Long Night to see spring, hence the name ADoS.

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5 hours ago, hallam said:

It is not clear whether Bran can see into the future or not. The three eyed crow implies he can when he says he was waiting for him. 

The war of seven kings is a book thing, not a show thing where there are only five. But even in the books there is a digression about how some of the Maesters dispute the term as there weren't seven kings at once.

Well, the maesters don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time. There are going to be a lot more than seven kings (and, by extension, powerful ruling queens) by the end of it all.

1 hour ago, Nami said:

I think ADoS entirety will be about The Long Night. At least most of the book will.  The question is if they will survive The Long Night to see spring, hence the name ADoS.

Yeah. In the books, the invasions

of Daenerys and the Others look like they are going to be happening at the same time.

Yikes!

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There will no final climatic battle against Cersei.

And what is the point of the whole undead and Long Night now?

Cersei still appears like this superior and extremely intelligent leader despite getting her power just by killing whoever else had it and then the show ignoring all the amassing plot holes.

 

- Tyrion suddenly trusts Cersei

- Dany suddenly doesn't care about the Iron Throne anymore

- Everyone in a position to destroy Cersei and the hated House Lannister stop caring for no reason

- The whole Reach switches sides to Cersei after she brutally murders House Tyrell, Reach and Westerlands nobles alike including the real Queen

- House Lannister still had an army despite having the army completely depleted after years of war and defeat

- Cersei still has gold despite having no GOLD and a massive debt

- She still gets help from the Iron Bank despite them knowing she has no credit and even after she told them to f*ck off

 

Nothing about Cersei's reign makes sense.

 

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Posted (edited)

Humanity is always humanity's ultimate enemy. When the external threat is gone, of course the story is not over.

After all:

Quote
Fire and Ice
 
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
 

 

Robert Frost

Don't get distracted by the purely elemental Ice and Fire...

Edited by hiemal

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[mod] Two points:

1. Stick to the thread topic. The thread topic is not whether you like the series as a whole or why you do/don't watch it.

2. Nor is the topic what you think of people who do watch it, or of each other. As a general rule, on this board if you're talking about your low opinions of other users or fans instead of talking about the content of the show itself, you should stop that, because that's not what the board is here for and we do not approve. [/mod]

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