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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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Dragon date??? Lol

The whole D and D plot line veered off course with “NURSE” from Volantis in Season 2.  Rapid descent after that.  Not even close to the storyline in the books

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7 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

The HBO official synopsis says he is still at the NW and he is just guiding the free folk home. 

He's guiding them the wrong way, they were granted the Gift!

Unless D&D believe this to be the solution to Mexicans too. Just send a hero to guide them all back to Mexico. Given they thought they were 'cool' and 'edgy' enough to write a 'what if the confederacy won' story, it wouldn't be surprising if they thought 'send them back' is the solution to xenophobia.

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8 hours ago, ladyinblack said:

The whole D and D plot line veered off course with “NURSE” from Volantis in Season 2.

Don't even remind me that cringe :ack:

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On 6/3/2019 at 5:30 PM, divica said:

But in that scenario I see jon beeing regent between 10 to 15 years until he decides to exile himself somewhere… He wouldn t abandon his (?) child to be raised by other people. Nor would he leave the realms without trying to make them a better place for the child.

I think grrm has expanded the targ story so much with FaB, dunk and egg and even in asoiaf to let it end in a big tragedy without any future descendents. Even if that was his original plan...

I began reading these books when the show came out and like every one else here got quite involved with them. My belief, my personal belief was that that this story was about the restoration of house Targaryen (the high fantasy trope of the return of the king/queen) but it appears the story is about the extinction of said house and more profound GRRM is actually writing about the end of a civilization, the Valyrians. When Dany dies so will the the last vestige of old Valyria. His writing all that Targ history is also a record of how the people of old Valyria were. It reminds me of Bernado Bertolucci film of the last emperor a (albeit romantacised) story of the last man to be emperor of a kingdom that was thousands of years old. When he died that was the end of that part of Chinese history and Chinas connection to it mearly becomes academic.

Old Valyria finally becomes just a page in fictional history, like the real world histories of the Minoans, the Maya, Aztecs, et al. At some point there would of been the last Mayan ruler, the last Aztec ruler and so on watching as there world fades away.  Is that bittersweet or heart breaking? Honestly I'm in two minds about whether I will read the future books if this is the case. (just peruse the synopsis) It's not quite what I am looking for in a story. I feel mislead.

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1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

I began reading these books when the show came out and like every one else here got quite involved with them. My belief, my personal belief was that that this story was about the restoration of house Targaryen (the high fantasy trope of the return of the king/queen) but it appears the story is about the extinction of said house and more profound GRRM is actually writing about the end of a civilization, the Valyrians. When Dany dies so will the the last vestige of old Valyria. His writing all that Targ history is also a record of how the people of old Valyria were. It reminds me of Bernado Bertolucci film of the last emperor a (albeit romantacised) story of the last man to be emperor of a kingdom that was thousands of years old. When he died that was the end of that part of Chinese history and Chinas connection to it mearly becomes academic.

Old Valyria finally becomes just a page in fictional history, like the real world histories of the Minoans, the Maya, Aztecs, et al. At some point there would of been the last Mayan ruler, the last Aztec ruler and so on watching as there world fades away.  Is that bittersweet or heart breaking? Honestly I'm in two minds about whether I will read the future books if this is the case. (just peruse the synopsis) It's not quite what I am looking for in a story. I feel mislead.

I think almost everybody that reads asoiaf is expecting a targ restoration in some form. And from the hints we saw in the show it looks to be heartbreaking instead of bittersweet. 

I have seen several people saying that they are on the fence about not Reading the books because of it… They were expecting and epic and this sounds like a tragedy. Grrm would need much more than 2 books to make this ending work and change the focus of the story.

16 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

He's guiding them the wrong way, they were granted the Gift!

Unless D&D believe this to be the solution to Mexicans too. Just send a hero to guide them all back to Mexico. Given they thought they were 'cool' and 'edgy' enough to write a 'what if the confederacy won' story, it wouldn't be surprising if they thought 'send them back' is the solution to xenophobia.

Laughed more than I should lol.

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12 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Todos con Juan Nieve, el rey del Sur del Norte!

Well, hey, this IS a world where you have to go east to go west, so why the heck not? :D

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16 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

I began reading these books when the show came out and like every one else here got quite involved with them. My belief, my personal belief was that that this story was about the restoration of house Targaryen (the high fantasy trope of the return of the king/queen) but it appears the story is about the extinction of said house and more profound GRRM is actually writing about the end of a civilization, the Valyrians. When Dany dies so will the the last vestige of old Valyria. His writing all that Targ history is also a record of how the people of old Valyria were. It reminds me of Bernado Bertolucci film of the last emperor a (albeit romantacised) story of the last man to be emperor of a kingdom that was thousands of years old. When he died that was the end of that part of Chinese history and Chinas connection to it mearly becomes academic.

Old Valyria finally becomes just a page in fictional history, like the real world histories of the Minoans, the Maya, Aztecs, et al. At some point there would of been the last Mayan ruler, the last Aztec ruler and so on watching as there world fades away.  Is that bittersweet or heart breaking? Honestly I'm in two minds about whether I will read the future books if this is the case. (just peruse the synopsis) It's not quite what I am looking for in a story. I feel mislead.

That would be sad, but not necessarily a bad ending.

Dany can triumph, or sacrifice herself to save the world, or die tragically, as a heroic failure, or gradually be corrupted by power. I don't mind, so long as the writing is good. But, if Martin suddenly turns her into a mad dog who has to be put down, 50 pages from the end of the series, I'll feel cheated.

 

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

But, if Martin suddenly turns her into a mad dog who has to be put down, 50 pages from the end of the series, I'll feel cheated.

Somehow, it seems to me that taking eight-plus years to write the damn thing, there's little chance of the last 50 pages being rushed off in a taxi on the way to the publisher!

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59 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Somehow, it seems to me that taking eight-plus years to write the damn thing, there's little chance of the last 50 pages being rushed off in a taxi on the way to the publisher!

No, that's D&D's modus operandi.

:rofl:

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1 hour ago, House Cambodia said:

Somehow, it seems to me that taking eight-plus years to write the damn thing, there's little chance of the last 50 pages being rushed off in a taxi on the way to the publisher!

It might happen if the publisher suddenly lays down the law and wants it done. Depends on if the publisher has so far been generous in letting the deadline  of whatever contract GRRM has with them slide-perhaps allowing him to do all those side projects he likes at the expense of concentrating on hammering out the last two books. 

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8 hours ago, SeanF said:

That would be sad, but not necessarily a bad ending.

Dany can triumph, or sacrifice herself to save the world, or die tragically, as a heroic failure, or gradually be corrupted by power. I don't mind, so long as the writing is good. But, if Martin suddenly turns her into a mad dog who has to be put down, 50 pages from the end of the series, I'll feel cheated.

 

Well I don’t think we are ever getting the last book so probably won’t come to that. It’s taking a decade for the book and the last book should take another decade with him focusing on PC games and such that by that time he would be in the eighties and I don’t see him completing it. Perhaps Joe Abercrombie would be hired to complete based on his notes. 

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15 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Perhaps Joe Abercrombie would be hired to complete based on his notes. 

While I sincerely wish George will have every chance to complete his series the way he sees fit, this would be a fantastic back up plan!!!

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5 hours ago, Br16 said:

It might happen if the publisher suddenly lays down the law and wants it done. Depends on if the publisher has so far been generous in letting the deadline  of whatever contract GRRM has with them slide-perhaps allowing him to do all those side projects he likes at the expense of concentrating on hammering out the last two books. 

No, seriously, I'm writing a novel myself at the moment. That's not how it works. GRRM will have written the tWOW from beginning to end long ago. He'll be redrafting and redrafting, still not satisfied with certain elements. Even if the publishers rushed him to submit a version he's not 100% happy with, it will still be 1000% better than the dross D&D came up with.

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10 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

No, seriously, I'm writing a novel myself at the moment. That's not how it works. GRRM will have written the tWOW from beginning to end long ago. He'll be redrafting and redrafting, still not satisfied with certain elements. Even if the publishers rushed him to submit a version he's not 100% happy with, it will still be 1000% better than the dross D&D came up with.

Cool, I didn't know you were a writer. First of all, can you tell us a bit about the novel are working on, I'm interested. Also, do you have some sort of author's website with your other novels? I wanna check it out.

 I know that GRRM has thousands of pages of manuscript  already done (he said it himself I read), however, my comment was meant to express my fear that he has probably attained such a privileged negotiating position that allows him to delay TWOW unnaturally long without consequence. Perhaps several original contract clauses on deadlines were allowed to slide. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ser Hedge said:

While I sincerely wish George will have every chance to complete his series the way he sees fit, this would be a fantastic back up plan!!!

Doubt it--the longer this series went on, the less it seemed like Martin would finish. Imagine watching someone else finish the series you were writing. It's not that he couldn't do (infinitely better), but the details have been ruined. If Stannis, for example, dies and Jon starts a fight against Ramsey, Martin could write this so much better than the shit show the Ds delivered, but for Martin, he must think, "what's the point?" I get it. It's on him, of course, but I get it.

Martin likely won't be finishing this in any way--let alone how he sees fit.

Edited by Mr. Fancy Pants

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I think there's every chance the publishers let George slide on deadlines for the "real" novels because he's been doing so damn many side stories, graphic novels, and reference books for them.  So long as the series isn't "ended," people will gobble up anything about the world they can get their hands on.

I've done some writing over the years myself, and know how difficult endings can be even with "smaller" stories like I've written.  Sometimes I have to set aside a story for several years and write some other things just to knock the dust out of my head before coming back to it.  So I totally get why there are sometimes huge gaps for him.  But I fear his big gaps have been exacerbated by the Ds and the travesty that the show became to the point he won't ever want to come back and finish it.  I know if it were my baby, I'd be in one of two places after that finale show.  Either I'd be super eager to get out my vision that didn't seem it took a steaming dump on everything that came before, or I'd be so discouraged I'd burn my manuscripts, demagnetize my hard drives, explode the keyboard I used to type it, and try to distance myself from it as far as I possibly could.

As much as I hope George is feeling the former, I fear it'll be the latter.

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