Jump to content
Corvo the Crow

Neck Will be the New Wall

Recommended Posts

An idea. The Wall is on the narrowest place in the north of The North and there are people left on the northern side of it, people who once were no different than their southern First Men brethren, having lords(magnars of thenn), bronze arms and armor(thenn again) and fortifications(fist of the first men). These are all left north of the wall once it was built against the Others, who weren’t fully defeated.

What if the fight against the othes is an everlasting one where men is losing but very slowly, losing ground every few thousand years.

The next bottleneck for a line of defense would then be The Neck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

An idea. The Wall is on the narrowest place in the north of The North and there are people left on the northern side of it, people who once were no different than their southern First Men brethren, having lords(magnars of thenn), bronze arms and armor(thenn again) and fortifications(fist of the first men). These are all left north of the wall once it was built against the Others, who weren’t fully defeated.

What if the fight against the othes is an everlasting one where men is losing but very slowly, losing ground every few thousand years.

The next bottleneck for a line of defense would then be The Neck.

Well, it might well happen in the story that once The Wall falls the Others will necessarily head south through the Neck. Who are the best to defend the Neck then?

Hint: Google Thermopylae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Well, it might well happen in the story that once The Wall falls the Others will necessarily head south through the Neck. Who are the best to defend the Neck then?

Hint: Google Thermopylae 

It is worth noting that there is a massive underground network of rivers and caverns that stretch from Bloodraven's Cave all the way to the Nightfort and then on to the Weeping Town in the southern Stormlands.

So yeah...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Neck wouldn’t be a great place to defend from a Northern threat because the crannogmen’s poison arrows wouldn’t do any good against the Others and Moat Cailin is super easy to take from the north. But I suppose if the men built new fortifications then it would actually be a pretty good line of defense. 

If the fight against the Others is indeed everlasting then the Dornish Marches perhaps could be the Westerosi’s last line of defense. The rivers in the Riverlands could act as natural obstacles but since the Others and the cold come at the same time they would probably just freeze over. The only other natural obstacles to the Others I can think of are the Mountains of the Moon and the rainwood maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

It is worth noting that there is a massive underground network of rivers and caverns that stretch from Bloodraven's Cave all the way to the Nightfort and then on to the Weeping Town in the southern Stormlands.

So yeah...

You're shortchanging it. Aerys II extended the weeping town tunnel all the way to Dorne to make it bloom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in this vision where the Neck becomes the new Wall, has the climate changed significantly? As in, does the North now resemble the land of Always Winter? Their physiology suggests that they can only exist where it's dark and very, very cold.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I do not envision the fight going beyond Winterfell in terms of how far South it goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, nyser1 said:

Personally I do not envision the fight going beyond Winterfell in terms of how far South it goes.

agree. Can't see a bittersweet ending with the entire north being dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

You're shortchanging it. Aerys II extended the weeping town tunnel all the way to Dorne to make it bloom.

That's a rumor, I need more to go off of than that. Aerys II apparently had a bad habit of not finishing anything (or rather, not starting) he set his mind to.

10 hours ago, nyser1 said:

Personally I do not envision the fight going beyond Winterfell in terms of how far South it goes.

 

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

agree. Can't see a bittersweet ending with the entire north being dead.

That's a horrible idea. There's so much wrong with that it's making my head hurt. I'm 98% sure that you're both wrong.

There's no way GRRM is letting southern Westeros get off of scot-free. Especially since they are the ones who have made it possible for the Others to bypass/destroy the Wall and invade the Seven Kingdoms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

That's a rumor, I need more to go off of than that. Aerys II apparently had a bad habit of not finishing anything (or rather, not starting) he set his mind to.

Baratheon propaganda. My man Aerys cooked all his plots till they were ready to serve!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Baratheon propaganda. My man Aerys cooked all his plots till they were ready to serve!

Well, then, if you're right and Aerys II did extend the Mistwood tunnels past the Red Mountains into Dorne, then Dorne is f-*/+ed.

Literally, because if that's the case, then I can totally see Daenerys giving Dorne dragonfire while the Others and their undead hordes terrorize the countryside.

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think too much stock is being placed in both the Wall and the neck as a choke point against the Others. I think the stated problems the wights have with water are something of a distraction. If you remember, the Others bring the cold with them. Logically this would include freezing the water for a flanking maneuver. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

That's a horrible idea. There's so much wrong with that it's making my head hurt. I'm 98% sure that you're both wrong.

There's no way GRRM is letting southern Westeros get off of scot-free. Especially since they are the ones who have made it possible for the Others to bypass/destroy the Wall and invade the Seven Kingdoms

Southem Westeros already is screwed and Daenerys had not even arrive.

Riverlands has being pillage since AGoT by everybody.

Westerlands was scorched by Robb, and probably will suffer more.

Reach is about to be pillage by the IB and maybe enter in a civil war.

Stormlands are about suffer in the hands of Aegon

I don't know what will happen to Dorne and the Vale but they will also suffer from LF and Doran plots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Southem Westeros already is screwed and Daenerys had not even arrive.

Riverlands has being pillage since AGoT by everybody.

Westerlands was scorched by Robb, and probably will suffer more.

Reach is about to be pillage by the IB and maybe enter in a civil war.

Stormlands are about suffer in the hands of Aegon

I don't know what will happen to Dorne and the Vale but they will also suffer from LF and Doran plots.

This, plus I personally find the non-undead part of the story to be of more interest (not that GRRM cares).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the Neck would be a logical choke-point to defend in the event of an Other attack on the North.  Most of the Nroth is too spread-out and open to be readily defensible, so it could be a location to pull back to (along with population centers such as Winterfell and White Harbour).  Alternatively, the Southerners could set up there once they realized the peril they were in.

Whether any of this would work is another matter. I seem to recall a Dany vision in which she is on a Dragon killing something that might be Others in the Trident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it a good possibility there will be a battle there between humankind and the Others. That Moat Cailin will be hurriedly and/or magically rebuilt or a wall fashioned there. I think the Others will win the battle.

Quote

Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin … or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil.

Foreshadowing perhaps for Bran building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without a doubt.

 

The most obvious point in Game of Thrones is that eventually everything boiled down to the Neck, not to King's Landing and such, so basically the Neck is the most relevant point also in the present and going forward.

Edited by Artimicia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Nevets said:

I think that the Neck would be a logical choke-point to defend in the event of an Other attack on the North.  Most of the Nroth is too spread-out and open to be readily defensible, so it could be a location to pull back to (along with population centers such as Winterfell and White Harbour).  Alternatively, the Southerners could set up there once they realized the peril they were in.

Whether any of this would work is another matter. I seem to recall a Dany vision in which she is on a Dragon killing something that might be Others in the Trident.

Yes, Dany did have that dream. But the Trident is significantly further south than the Neck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my head-cannon, the Others will make it at least as far as the Twins, just for the sake of symbolism; you know, Winter literally coming to the Freys. Also, Daenerys had a dream in ASOS about melting soldiers of ice on the Trident that couldn't have been a coincidence. Unless she misunderstood the dream and it was some other river, possibly the fork on the White Knife if the Others never make it past the neck, or even the Last River if the Others really don't make it too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×