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Sea Dragon

Martin confirms Dany's coin lands good.

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This just came out and I want to discuss it here so everyone will know. According to this french site, Martin has already confirmed that Dany's coin will land on the side for good. Targaryen madness is a lie. No show talk here because that will just enrage everyone again including me. I knew the books would be better and I love that Martin confirmed this. 

Quote

George R.R. Martin a affirmé par le passé que Daenerys Targaryen n’était pas folle, que dans son cas "la pièce avait atterrie du bon côté", elle était une "bonne" Targaryen. Au vu du traitement de sa disgrâce par D&D, on est obligé de reconnaître que, soit Martin a menti, soit la fin de la série est une invention de D&D, soit (plus probablement) ils ont tant simplifié l’histoire de Martin que sa signification et sa finalité a été trahi à l’extrême. 

Translated

George R.R. Martin has said in the past that Daenerys Targaryen was not mad, that in her case "the coin had landed on the right side", she was a "good" Targaryen. Given the treatment of his disgrace by D&D, we are forced to recognize that either Martin lied, or the end of the series was a D&D invention, or (more probably) they simplified Martin's story so much that his meaning and its purpose has been betrayed to the extreme.

So can we please stop debating this now? It is confirmed and we need to move on with how she and her dragons are the symbol of peace and rebuilding and it is others that want to tear her down. 

https://unificationfrance.com/spip.php?page=pages_mobiles&squelette_mobile=mobile%2Farticle&id_article=60319&fbclid=IwAR03u54S2b60O883iktgyhWPzzvuJbHGxvWivgsO8UeiK41mJ1t6cFBZHwI&lang=fr

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Interesting. Though I suppose we'll have to wait for the Winds and Dream to come out to see if that's actually the case. 

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3 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

No show talk here

You’re right. And it’s not because it might enrage some, yours truly included, but because it’s a forum rule.

3 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

Given the treatment of his disgrace by D&D, we are forced to recognize that either Martin lied, or the end of the series was a D&D invention, or (more probably) they simplified Martin's story so much that his meaning and its purpose has been betrayed to the extreme.

I thought you just said, “no show talk”. I may have misunderstood, it’s been pointed to me that I have poor reading comprehension. :lol:

And “Dany and her dragons are the symbol of peace and rebuilding”... interesting. What do you think Dany means when she thinks, “dragons plant no trees”? 

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How can it not be the case when the author himself says it is true? This is clearly the direction he has been moving Dany in since from the beginning. It just really makes me happy to see this now. 

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

You’re right. And it’s not because it might enrage some, yours truly included, but because it’s a forum rule.

I thought you just said, “no show talk”. I may have misunderstood, it’s been pointed to me that I have poor reading comprehension. :lol:

And “Dany and her dragons are the symbol of peace and rebuilding”... interesting. What do you think Dany means when she thinks, “dragons plant no trees”? 

Sorry. That was part of the larger quote. 

Dragons plant no trees means Dany's home is not in the middle of the Dothraki sea and Meereen. Her home is Westeros on the land itself where she was born. She will plant her trees there. 

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1 minute ago, Sea Dragon said:

Sorry. That was part of the larger quote. 

Dragons plant no trees means Dany's home is not in the middle of the Dothraki sea and Meereen. Her home is Westeros on the land itself where she was born. She will plant her trees there. 

Reread the whole “dragons plant no trees”; it really doesn’t align w/ your interpretation

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Reread the whole “dragons plant no trees”; it really doesn’t align w/ your interpretation

It's not just my interpretation, it is other peoples as well. And now Martin says Dany is good, so. She wants to plant trees but she can't because that isn't her rightful home where she was born and her family ruled.

Quote

"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.     

 

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Considering that George has essentially had no Targaryen (or any character that I recall right now) who we would consider to be 'mad' in the damning sense of the word (there are some eccentric folk like various Ironborn women who got odd in old age, but that are different cases) while not having him or her being marked as a freak/sadist since childhood (if not birth) we really cannot seriously consider Daenerys Targaryen to be on par with the likes of Maegor, Joffrey, her own father, etc.

Those people had serious issues throughout their entire lives.

This doesn't mean Dany might not do some things that are, well, questionable, but we can be very sure she is never going to become a raving lunatic like her father, or suddenly develop Maegor- or Aerion-like tastes (or even start to behave like her brother, Viserys III). The way George has depicted mental illness so far we always saw that they had severe issues of one sort of another from the very start - we see such issues in milder or stronger form in Theon, Aeron, Jaime, Cersei. But with Daenerys there is really no indication that she suffers from proper delusions, paranoia, etc. Her seeing things in ADwD is - if not being part of some mystical spirit quest stuff - due to her having not being eaten proper food for long period of time.

This doesn't mean she has to survive the series. She very much could die - and she could very well plant no trees, either. She might even 'burn' in the metaphorical sense of the word, but that would only be fitting for somebody who is likely going to have to do rather important things.

But the idea that she would ever do something as silly as the show nonsense - or would ever have the means to pull something like that in the middle of winter (the dragons won't be able to burn down any city) - was always never very convincing. Even in the show it is quite clear that they pulled that particular tidbit straight out of their asses, having visibly built up a different kind of plot for her and Cersei as late as season 7.

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Just because someone is "born" good doesn't mean they stay good. Danny can be many things but it is my firm belief that she will snap and do what she did, except to Aegon because he is both real and people love him

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It just means that Dany's coin landed on Fire and that she is "Good" from the perspective of someone like Mel. 

Quote

Melisandre, whose madness must not be allowed to spread beyond Dragonstone.

Edited by Narsil4

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HA !     this only means that the HBO script is not what the REAL story is.
HA !
triple HA!

 

 

 


 

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3 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

This just came out and I want to discuss it here so everyone will know. According to this french site, Martin has already confirmed that Dany's coin will land on the side for good. Targaryen madness is a lie. No show talk here because that will just enrage everyone again including me. I knew the books would be better and I love that Martin confirmed this. 

So can we please stop debating this now? It is confirmed and we need to move on with how she and her dragons are the symbol of peace and rebuilding and it is others that want to tear her down. 

https://unificationfrance.com/spip.php?page=pages_mobiles&squelette_mobile=mobile%2Farticle&id_article=60319&fbclid=IwAR03u54S2b60O883iktgyhWPzzvuJbHGxvWivgsO8UeiK41mJ1t6cFBZHwI&lang=fr

Dany is my favorite of the main characters. Her story shows a pattern of doing good for the people. Just know though that Martin can always change his mind. I do think the Starks will end up the antagonist of the plot.The story is unfinished and the ink has not dried. 

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Considering that George has essentially had no Targaryen (or any character that I recall right now) who we would consider to be 'mad' in the damning sense of the word (there are some eccentric folk like various Ironborn women who got odd in old age, but that are different cases) while not having him or her being marked as a freak/sadist since childhood (if not birth) we really cannot seriously consider Daenerys Targaryen to be on par with the likes of Maegor, Joffrey, her own father, etc.

Those people had serious issues throughout their entire lives.

This doesn't mean Dany might not do some things that are, well, questionable, but we can be very sure she is never going to become a raving lunatic like her father, or suddenly develop Maegor- or Aerion-like tastes (or even start to behave like her brother, Viserys III). The way George has depicted mental illness so far we always saw that they had severe issues of one sort of another from the very start - we see such issues in milder or stronger form in Theon, Aeron, Jaime, Cersei. But with Daenerys there is really no indication that she suffers from proper delusions, paranoia, etc. Her seeing things in ADwD is - if not being part of some mystical spirit quest stuff - due to her having not being eaten proper food for long period of time.

This doesn't mean she has to survive the series. She very much could die - and she could very well plant no trees, either. She might even 'burn' in the metaphorical sense of the word, but that would only be fitting for somebody who is likely going to have to do rather important things.

But the idea that she would ever do something as silly as the show nonsense - or would ever have the means to pull something like that in the middle of winter (the dragons won't be able to burn down any city) - was always never very convincing. Even in the show it is quite clear that they pulled that particular tidbit straight out of their asses, having visibly built up a different kind of plot for her and Cersei as late as season 7.

Drogon will be far too small to burn a city, in any case.

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I'm not sure where Martin did say what the article claims.

That said, I'm quite certain that Dany's story is not about the rise to power of a figure like Hitler, whatever D & D might think.

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5 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

So can we please stop debating this now? It is confirmed and we need to move on with how she and her dragons are the symbol of peace and rebuilding and it is others that want to tear her down. 

Just lol.

Here is the Complete Rolling Stone Interview with GRRM dated to JUNE 13, 2014.

Quote

 

Q: That seems to apply as well to your fantasy or magic elements: If there’s a God of Light, he seems awful. Are the walking dead out of the north beyond any reclaim? And then there’s Daenerys’s dragons: They seem kind of promising, like they could be a force of justice or good.

GRRM: Yes, that’s the way they seem. I hope. [Laughs] I don’t necessarily want to tell you what I’m thinking but to return to what I pointed at earlier, I like people that ask these questions, not necessarily provide them with the answers. So as the books unfold, there will be more and more to think about in these regards.

 

[KEKW]

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It would be nice to see the actual quote from Martin, rather than a magazine article claiming that he said it. I hope he did say that but for now I'm skeptical.

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