Unconventional opinions dumpsterfire of a thread

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

23 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea right, and thats without trying lol

Right! It's kinda crazy when you think about all that surrounds her. 

24 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I wish I could lol. But we can only blame her for all the bounty hunters and mad knights like Ser Shadrich

24 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Also, Robbs will (cuz of Sansa) if that ever happens, makes the son of Rhegar the legal king of the Trident, which I think is pretty funny.

Haha! Yeah, nice. 

My man Jon, knows nothing, King of everything

25 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Which reminds me of another unconventional opinion. Many characters are Azor Ahai (Dany, Stannis, Jon, Davos, Ramsay) and many more have the potential (Catelyn, Victarion, Theon, Tyrion)

To my understanding you just need to be reborn in smoke and salt and kill someone you love. That surprisingly happens a lot

Right, these prophecies give me a head ache. Everyone is AA, every one is the valonqar, everyone is the ymb. Too much for me lol 

[Elegant Woes]

Sansa saving Lancel led to him finding faith and confessing all his sins to the High Septon which in return results in Cersei killing him and replacing him with the High Sparrow. So that's how Sansa is responsible for the faith militant uprising. Joking put aside what choices Sansa makes does create a butterfly affect. There goes the idea she has no impact on the story. 

As for who Azor Ahai is, Arya is also a big contender. I mean if she kills Lady Stoneheart in TWOW and then decides to let go of revenge and be Arya again she, metaphorically, will be reborn in smoke (what Lady Stoneheart will be reduced to after being killed the second time?) and tears (Arya crying?) by killing someone she loves (her dear mom).

[Hugorfonics]

27 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right, these prophecies give me a head ache. Everyone is AA, every one is the valonqar, everyone is the ymb. Too much for me lol 

Lol for real

17 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Sansa saving Lancel led to him finding faith and confessing all his sins to the High Septon which in return results in Cersei killing him and replacing him with the High Sparrow. So that's how Sansa is responsible for the faith militant uprising. Joking put aside what choices Sansa makes does create a butterfly affect.

Eyyyyy, your right. She did save Lancel who plays a major game later... Idk, was everyone really just gonna let him die on the floor?

18 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

There goes the idea she has no impact on the story. 

Yea, Im pretty sure, if I had to choose, shes the main character... But not Azor Ahai lol.... Actually, Alayne becoming Sansa and killing Robert... Although i dont think she loves her cousin like that

20 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

As for who Azor Ahai is, Arya is also a big contender. I mean if she kills Lady Stoneheart in TWOW and then decides to let go of revenge and be Arya again she, metaphorically, will be reborn smoke (what Lady Stoneheart will be reduced to) and tears (Arya crying?) by killing someone she loves (her dear mom).

Word. Could happen. I think along the same lines as what if Catelyn kills Arya.

I dont want either of those to happen though lol

[Nagini's Neville]

47 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Idk, was everyone really just gonna let him die on the floor?

maybe he would have survived, but he was pretty destroyed after for a long, long time. They were all in a panic, fleeing. Since it was Cersei, who hit him in his wound in the first place, I doubt anyone would have payed him any attention, if Sansa hadn't commanded it.

[Lady Anna]

I love opinion threads. Mine:

- Jon Snow is my favourite character. The northern storyline is probably my favourite of the series. The King's Landing/political story is overrated imo.

- The first book is my least favourite.

- I enjoy the expanded worldbuilding of Feast and Dance and I think they came at the right time. If anything what should have been cut or condensed was Dany's detour in Slaver's Bay. I don't mind those chapters, but in hindsight, it might have been better if she had gone from Qarth straight to Pentos, with a stop in Volantis.

- I'm in the camp that prefers Feast/Dance to the first 3 books.

- I don't really ship anyone in this series. I'm completely indifferent.

- The fandom gives way too much importance to the Rhaegar and Lyanna thing. Not RLJ, which I believe is true, but that entire backstory. At this point we're just going around in circles. And Rhaegar was a jerk.

- Tyrion will descend even further into villainy. Jon and Dany are also going to become darker characters, for sure.

- And as other posters have said, the inclusion of so much sexual violence, child brides, and generally grown men lusting after teen girls, is......weird to say the least. Also the age of the characers, I have to imagine them a few years older when I'm reading or it will take me out from the story.

- A lot of supporting characters are absolute gems. I think, more than anything, the character writing in these books is fantastic.

 

[Mithras]

A lot of things from the 1993 outline are far superior to what we have now.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

10 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Don't forget everything until the sack of Winterfell where he's our exposition and foreshadowing fairy.

Yeah, that wasn't so bad, still not my favorite though. 

10 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Like I guess there is a lot of reasons to be happy, but really, Drogo? How about Tywin, the Masters of Astapor or Joffrey?

haha Right?! Drogo was not a 'good' man but he was decent to Daenerys. Not in the beginning, he was indifferent to her I think, but he grew to be pretty good to her. 

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

If Tywin and Mace never showed up to Blackwater, Stannis still would have lost.

I agree with this. 

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Aerys wasnt as insane as we're led to believe

This not so much, although I do think there is probably much more of an explanation to his insanity than what we are given. 

9 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

1. Bran is the closest thing to a Protagonist and more people should put respect on his name

I respect him, I just think his storyline thus far has been boooorrrriiinnnnggg LOL

9 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

6. Ned is a better politician than Tywin.

I'd have to overwhelmingly disagree here. I suppose it's all a matter of opinion but one of the reasons I like Ned so much is because he wasn't a "politician" IMO

9 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

7. I don't like Sandor Clegane. He's not nearly as funny as some people like to believe (unless you think calling people cunt is peak humor), and his abusive behavior towards Sansa and Arya is deeply off-putting.

Oh man.  I think he is hilarious! I could read about him & Arya all day. 

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Ramsay is incredibly entertaining

He is. Such a wicked man! Great to read. 

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Fuck the Ned

No Way! LOL

9 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

11. Stannis will not reclaim Winterfell. No way will he, a tertiary character, make the Starks, the heroes of the story, secondary characters in their own storyline. Where is the emotional payoff in this? We shouldn't also forget how he wants to burn the Weirwood tree. That should tell us just how little he deserves to reclaim Winterfell. No way in hell will a kin slayer like him be rewarded like this. 

I'm of the opinion that he will win the battle at WF (possibly with Jon's help?) but not that he will hold it. I don't think he will have it long enough to burn the Weirwood tree or anything. I think by the time it's said & done it will have been the extra push Jon needed to take the place as Lord of WF. 

 

[X-Buster]

1. The slaves in Volantis will revolt on their own. Benerro will lead the way.
2. Rhaegar's spirit is lost. Rhaego's is the one who gave life to Rhaegal.  Viserys' to Viserion.  Drogo's to Drogon.
3. Robert Strong is a mixture of Gregor's and Robb's body parts.
4. Rickard was supposed to pass the ritual of human sacrifice to Brandon but they both died before the knowledge got passed.  The Starks have been sacrificing to the trees for thousands of years.  
5. Samwell, Jon, and Jaime will be required to sacrifice the women they love for each to build a weapon against the white walkers.  Samwell has to kill Gilly, Jon has to kill Arya, and Jaime has to kill Cersei.  
6. Dany's red sword is the comet.  She woke dragons from stone and became Azor Ahai on that day.  She will have to sacrifice three husbands in total, burn traitors three times, and three times the comet will appear.  The first set has happened.  Two more husbands, two more traitors to go.
7. Jon's betrayal will be the cause of the wall's failure to stop the white walkers.  The wildlings will be in charge at the wall following his death and they will not be up to the task.  
8. Victarion will not make it back home.  He will die in Slaver's Bay.  
9. Civil War will break out in all of the kingdoms in Westeros.  The ruling families will be split.  The Hightowers will oppose the Tyrells, many in the north will support the Boltons, and war will break out in the vale.
10. All of the fan favorite characters will die because George R. R. Martin wants a heart breaking story.  It will be seconds who will survive: Samwell, Greyworm, Brienne, Meera, Jorah, Missandei, Big Walder, Robin, and Varys.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1. I love the Ironborn.

1a. The Iron Throne had a million chances to join the Ironborn closer to the rest of Westeros. Instead they just ignored them, and thus created a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

2. Jorah is a) a mostly-good person and b) a smart character. There's a reason why Dany started to struggle so much once he was no longer there to advise her. 

3. As of now, I think Rheager and Lyanna were both selfish fools. Maybe that'll change once we learn more about them, but as of now, I have no sympathy for either of them.

4. George may have gone a bit overboard with Cersei, but that's what makes her so much fun.

5. Recently, there has been this world salad about how Jaime's arc isn't about redemption but instead the "limits of redemption." This is silly. ALL redemption arcs are about the limits of redemption (ex. Darth Vader deciding to kill Palpatine and save Luke didn't undo him slaughtering all the younglings at the Jedi Temple). Furthermore, even if you think Jaime was a bad person for working for the Lannisters' interests in AFFC, he would have been a worse person if he hadn't. He can't go back in time; Jaime fathered Tommen and Myrcella, and if the Lannisters lose the throne, they will both end up dead. Jaime would be a far worse person if he decided to abandon his family and ensure his children's deaths than he is by kicking the Tullys out of Riverrun.

6. To draw 4 & 5 together, I do not believe Jaime is the valonqar, and if he was, it would be a huge step back for his character (the ultimate act of domestic violence), not a step forward.

7. It's not talked about as much anymore, but there was a lot of hand-wringing about the "dead ladies club" at one point . . . .  and to be honest, I'm not that bothered about it. Almost all of those deaths (namely Lyanna, Rhaella, Elia, Joanna, and Ashara) all had narrative purposes, and the story would be drastically different had they survived. I'm more bothered that Asha is apparently the only woman that lives on the Iron Islands.

8. I've seen other people bring this up before, but it's important to remember that George R.R. Martin is a seventy-something-year-old man who started writing this series back in the 90s. Critical analysis is perfectly fine, but it's unrealistic to expect the books' ending to be "woke" by the standards of young people in 2020.

9. That being said, I do wish there were fewer 13 and 14-year old brides in this series. However, in the main series at least, I think this was more the result of George having assumed that more time was going to pass over the span of each book. I think this is probably the case with the relationship between Sansa and the Hound. Sansa was likely supposed to be in her late teens by now, and GRRM just kind of writes her as if she were.

10. While we're on the subject of SanSan, I do get the impression that the reason why some people dislike it (not all, but some) is because it's predominantly shipped by women, and everyone knows that if girls like something, then it MUST be stupid.

11. Even in a series about kings and queens and birthright, I've still always been uncomfortable with the assertion that Daenerys is entitled to rule a country that she hasn't been to since she was born, and whose culture and people she knows nothing about. 

[Nagini's Neville]

16 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well you don't have to really think... Remember Kyra?

Ikr? But there are actually a lot of ppl, who still argue he isn't a rapist. I mean... we were kinda there  

16 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Like I guess there is a lot of reasons to be happy, but really, Drogo? How about Tywin, the Masters of Astapor or Joffrey?

I almost stopped reading Dany's chapters all together, because of Drogo. Whenever George complains, that ppl are just so prude regarding his sex scenes in comparison to the violence. I feel like he conveniently never mentions which kind of sex scenes readers especially have problems with, I know a lot of ppl, who don't get through AGOT because of it. I just don't enjoy a 13 year old being forced to have sex with a 30 year old, especially, if the 13 year is written like a realistic kid, that age. And this wasn't even the norm in the Middle ages at all. If girls were married that early the consummation was usually postponed a couple of years, so IMO there was no reason at all to include that. Especially not in such a uncritical way. Normal kids would have to deal with psychological consequences, but GRRM shows none of that on the contrary he even sexualizes their scenes. And Dany as well, I would be completely fine with less info about what her boobs are constantly up to (that's also super unrealistic, that that's always mention from her own pov) Their wedding night was utterly unrealistic as well.

IMO Drogo is only so popular, because he was played by Jason Mamoa. Most readers did already see season 1 before reading the books. IMO he is a walking stereotype in the books, he is kinda Dany's Shae, has two personally traits(even though I think Shae has more) and that's it. If a hideous guy had played him in the abomination everyone would hate him.

Don't care enough about the Masters of Astapor- sorry, I care more about being able to enjoy Dany chapters in general; was sad, when Tywin died- horrible person. but amazing character; for some reason I don't really hate joffrey- don't ask me why, especially since I like Sansa and Ned !!

 

[frenin]

10 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Jon Arryn was evil mastermind behind the rebellion and it was he who actually run the kingdom until he became senile.

Well, that's an unconventional opinion... Or rather conventional  in this forum.

[frenin]

19 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

. I love the Ironborn.

Lmao.

 

19 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

1a. The Iron Throne had a million chances to join the Ironborn closer to the rest of Westeros. Instead they just ignored them, and thus created a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

This is not an opinion  tho, this is just a fact. The Iron Throne is seen as yoke for the Ironborn, they benefited from anything and they see their way of life broken, with no other alternative, them humiliated and ignored... Taxes and forced common law is the only thing the Iron Islands share with the continent.

 

 

19 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

11. Even in a series about kings and queens and birthright, I've still always been uncomfortable with the assertion that Daenerys is entitled to rule a country that she hasn't been to since she was born, and whose culture and people she knows nothing about. 

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

9. That being said, I do wish there were fewer 13 and 14-year old brides in this series. However, in the main series at least, I think this was more the result of George having assumed that more time was going to pass over the span of each book. I think this is probably the case with the relationship between Sansa and the Hound. Sansa was likely supposed to be in her late teens by now, and GRRM just kind of writes her as if she were.

I think that is still no explanation, that every man thinks she is such a hot 12 year old, because, that started before he wanted to have the time jump (similar with Dany) Are we suppose to think that's normal in universe? Or do all of these men have massive issues? IMO it's not completely clear from the text, there are constantly conflicting messages. And if it's supposed to be time period appropriate- it's not even that.

Edit: I also don't think GRRM writes her at all as, if she was in her late teens already. To me she is a very realistic almost 13/14 year old, when we last see her. Otherwise she'd be a bit too immature and still stuck in certain developmental stages you're usually already past, when you are 17/18. I don't think we'd have the whole unkiss thing (whatever it will turn out to be about), if she was already older

[Alyn Oakenfist]

39 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Their wedding night was utterly unrealistic as well

Not really, it was just a matter of hormones in the end. Don't get me wrong it's still very rapey, but it is realistic. Remember Dany is 13 year old, with all the hormones that come with that.

42 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

IMO Drogo is only so popular, because he was played by Jason Mamoa. Most readers did already see season 1 before reading the books. IMO he is a walking stereotype in the books, he is kinda Dany's Shae, has two personally traits(even though I think Shae has more) and that's it. If a hideous guy had played him in the abomination everyone would hate him.

I think it's the other way around. Drogo is already this hyper-masculine ubermenshen, the kind that appeals to the ape in all of us, so it's only fitting that he should be played by a guy that looks like his balls have balls. 

1 minute ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I think that is still no explanation, that every man thinks she is such a hot 12 year old. Are we suppose to think that's normal in universe? Or do all of these men have massive issues? IMO it's not completely clear from the text, there are constantly conflicting messages. And if it's supposed to be time period appropriate- it's not even that.

It is though. A lot of marriages happened before 16 years back in the day. If you want a good example, Henry VII's mother was something like 14 when she gave birth to him (and due to the fact she was 14 remained sterile after). So while unsettling it was common practice.

[Nagini's Neville]

35 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Not really, it was just a matter of hormones in the end. Don't get me wrong it's still very rapey, but it is realistic. Remember Dany is 13 year old, with all the hormones that come with that.

Well, from having been a 13 year old girl myself and have known other 13 year old girls, I'd still say it's is quite unrealistic for a virgin to do especially at that age, if this is her first sexual encounter - and I'm not speaking about getting turned on. 

35 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I think it's the other way around. Drogo is already this hyper-masculine ubermenshen, the kind that appeals to the ape in all of us, so it's only fitting that he should be played by a guy that looks like his balls have balls. 

Maybe, I can't speak to that, since I can't relate at all  If that's supposed to be hyper-masculinity? I strongly dislike it lol. But you did see Momoa rip the guy's tongue out, before you read the book, didn't you?  

But yeah maybe my argument is flawed since, if he had been a fat old dude, he would have been a different character, but still if he had done the same to Dany everybody would have hated him even, if she had accepted him as well. 

35 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It is though. A lot of marriages happened before 16 years back in the day. If you want a good example, Henry VII's mother was something like 14 when she gave birth to him (and due to the fact she was 14 remained sterile after). So while unsettling it was common practice.

Early marriages did happen, but it wasn't common at all to consummate the marriage that early. Usually it was custom to wait a couple of years until the wife was older to not endanger her or a potential heir, since death in childbed happened so often without the mother being 13/14. There are exceptions, of course but it wasn't common and usually only done, if there were a pressing political reasons. 

Still I don't think, that explains why Sansa gets that kind of attention so young. And I also think there is on average a big difference between a 12 year old and a 14 year old looks-wise. While a lot of 14 year olds can already look more grown-up, most 12 year olds usually still look like complete children. Think 6 graders.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

6 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Well, from having been a 13 year old girl myself and have known other 13 year old girls, I'd still say it's is quite unrealistic for a virgin to do especially at that age, if this is your first sexual encounter - and I'm not speaking about getting turned on here

Honestly, I'm don't know that much on the matter, and even if I did it's such a bear trap that I'm just going to say you're right let's please change the subject

8 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Maybe, I can't speak to that, since I can't relate at all  If that's supposed to be hyper-masculinity? I strongly dislike it lol. But you did see Momoa rip the guy's tongue out, before you read the book, didn't you?  

 

Actually not really, because for a long time I though the show was just T&A, so I read the books first (after a lot of prodding from a friend)

10 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

If that's supposed to be hyper-masculinity? I strongly dislike it lol

The character if basically a satire of toxic masculinity, so I think it's natural to dislike it.

12 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

But yeah maybe my argument is flawed since, if he had been a fat old dude, he would have been a different character, but still if he had done the same to Dany everybody would have hated him even, if she had accepted him as well. 

Yeah I guess you're right, though I think if Dany accepted him the reaction would be the same. Put it this way, if Sansa was married to someone like Lancel, it probably would have been better seen by the audience (presuming no consummation) but not because the audience is again Tyrion, but rather because Sansa is repulsed by Tyrion herself. It's not a matter of how the guy actually looks/is but rather on how he's perceived by the unwilling consort.

[Nagini's Neville]

On 16. April 2020 at 12:46 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Actually not really, because for a long time I though the show was just T&A, so I read the books first (after a lot of prodding from a friend)

well, then sorry for being so prejudiced !

On 16. April 2020 at 12:46 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yeah I guess you're right, though I think if Dany accepted him the reaction would be the same. Put it this way, if Sansa was married to someone like Lancel, it probably would have been better seen by the audience (presuming no consummation) but not because the audience is again Tyrion, but rather because Sansa is repulsed by Tyrion herself. It's not a matter of how the guy actually looks/is but rather on how he's perceived by the unwilling consort.

Good point. I guess people got behind it, because Dany did. But I think the Sansa - Tyrion - Lancel example isn't really a good one, since Sansa's main issue was, that she didn't want to marry a Lannister, but thought Tyrion was "not as bad as the rest of them." Tyrion offered her to marry Lancel (whether, that would have been possible or not in the end) and she declined. Lancel also was really mean to her, while Tyrion wasn't.

[kissdbyfire]

@Nagini's Neville, I have always pictured the main young characters as being a tad older in my head canon, even when I first read the first 3 novels many years before the show was a thing. And I know there’s something out there - SSM, interview, something! - where Martin says something along the lines of regretting having the young crew be so young. I did a quick search but couldn’t find it, but I will try again in a bit and will link it if I do find it. 

Back to the OP, I know it’s totes not cool but there’s quite a few characters I would like to see gone - as in dead.

[Nagini's Neville]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Nagini's Neville, I have always pictured the main young characters as being a tad older in my head canon, even when I first read the first 3 novels many years before the show was a thing. And I know there’s something out there - SSM, interview, something! - where Martin says something along the lines of regretting having the young crew be so young. I did a quick search but couldn’t find it, but I will try again in a bit and will link it if I do find it. 

Oh, thanks! You don't have to, I can look myself! Maybe it's silly to obsess over this, I just think there are conflicting messages in the text in that regard. But maybe that's the nature of the time period, that there are no clear rules to protect "children" and childhood is just not  sacred, given also child labor and child soldiers. So maybe the rule is "if you look like a woman (or what they think that is) and had your period, you are a woman" and maybe GRRM thought the time would pass quicker in general even without the time jump. I can see how that could happen as a gardener. 

To me the young crew is just written extremely well- age-appropriately- so I just can't really picture them older.

[Arthur Peres]

1- Jaime is a monster as much as Cersei and Tywin.

2- There is nothing just about Stannis.

3- Aegon II had the best claim.

4- No matter what Robb did he would always lose his war for reasons outside of his control and the Freys would always jump ship, broken oath or not.

5- Asha's chapters could be entirely cut off and we wouldn't lose anything that could be sumirized in a few dialogue lines in other Pov's.

6- As bad as Robert was as king, his predecessors were much awful and I wouldn't be surprise if he makes a Top 5 best kings of the IT.

7- Dany's storyline after ACoK is uninteresting.

8-Doran is not a great plotter or schimer, but a kind hearted man that is being forced to take actions he is not ready for and is incredibly incompetent and is doomed to watch everything he loves dies.

9-Cersei's though process are gross and I need to shower after reading her chapters.

10- Roose was betraying Robb right from the start at the Green fork.