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(Content warning) So it turns out that David Eddings was a convicted and jailed child abuser

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7 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

My (admittedly entirely outside experience) is that it's kind of a structural problem with the "literature business" (especially SF/F) with the intersection between fan culture (where many authors are also fans) the importance of networking (where mentoring relationships and general contacts can be really important) and a generally kind of loosey-goosey difference between professional and private. 

Maybe.  It just seems like a bad plan to ever attempt a professional and a sexual relationship with someone simultaneously.  

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Maybe.  It just seems like a bad plan to ever attempt a professional and a sexual relationship with someone simultaneously.  

Yeah, but like... What's a professional relationship in this sense? Giving someone a few pointers about writing? Asking my buddy if he's got a job opening? Etc. What is a fan and what is an artist? (I mean, the fan/artist relationship is already kind of fraught, but add the issues we've mentioned...) 

It seems like a lot more distinct than the "I am an employer of X", "We are both employed by X" kind of relationships you see in a more uh... 9-5 environment. 

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28 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Stego would you be willing to share what makes you say this?

Sorry. I chose my words carefully. 

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22 minutes ago, Galactus said:

Yeah, but like... What's a professional relationship in this sense? Giving someone a few pointers about writing? Asking my buddy if he's got a job opening? Etc. What is a fan and what is an artist? (I mean, the fan/artist relationship is already kind of fraught, but add the issues we've mentioned...) 

It seems like a lot more distinct than the "I am an employer of X", "We are both employed by X" kind of relationships you see in a more uh... 9-5 environment. 

Rowland seems to have been seeking a mentor/mentee relationship.  Sex mixed with that?   

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Rowland seems to have been seeking a mentor/mentee relationship.  Sex mixed with that?   

Definitely skeevy, but my point is that there seems to be a lot of cover for that kind of skeeviness in that kind of setting. 

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12 minutes ago, Galactus said:

Definitely skeevy, but my point is that there seems to be a lot of cover for that kind of skeeviness in that kind of setting. 

Perhaps.  

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Let’s face it, people with less healthy tools for dating will make poorer choices and people with healthier tools will make better choices. (In general). My point being, an emotionally healthy person probably knows not to date a boss / employee / client / mentor / mentee for just a fling. If there are deeper feeling developing, it can be done, but it takes both people to make it work and know the boundaries. It doesn’t sound like good choices were being made at any point of the Rowland / Lynch / (Bear?) relationship.

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3 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Let’s face it, people with less healthy tools for dating will make poorer choices and people with healthier tools will make better choices. (In general). My point being, an emotionally healthy person probably knows not to date a boss / employee / client / mentor / mentee for just a fling. If there are deeper feeling developing, it can be done, but it takes both people to make it work and know the boundaries. It doesn’t sound like good choices were being made at any point of the Rowland / Lynch / (Bear?) relationship.

Yeah. I suspect it’s often a case of authors who were socially awkward at school (ignored/bullied) suddenly finding their writing success has made them heroes in the eyes of the sff community. Including young people at cons...

The power and temptation clearly proved too much for many.

On the bright side, if the current crop of sff authors continues to implode, there’s always me waiting in the wings of obscurity ready to inflict my three published novels on a traumatised community who’s just cleared their bookshelves of everyone from Eddings to Lynch.

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Any chance we can change the thread title now it has become a generic thread and no longer about Eddings?

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Better to let someone make another thread, but yes, this should come back to its titular topic.

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Having reread these books, what I'm amazed at is that is these books are full of sexism, racist and have undertones of pedophilia in them. But people are happy to read them until they find out he and his wife committed child abuse. 

As for JKR, I think the point she was trying to make is there have been women sexually assaulted by men claiming to be trans women in changing rooms and Tran's women have been put in to female prison's and then commented rapes. Which has lead to fear for some of the women who share these facility's and are then told they have no choice in the matter. But if you try to raise these issues or say you have an issue with them, you're homophobic. 

Not saying I agree or disagree with these views, but I do think we should be able to talk about them like adults. 

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On 6/26/2020 at 3:26 PM, Gertrude said:

Let’s face it, people with less healthy tools for dating will make poorer choices and people with healthier tools will make better choices. (In general). My point being, an emotionally healthy person probably knows not to date a boss / employee / client / mentor / mentee for just a fling. If there are deeper feeling developing, it can be done, but it takes both people to make it work and know the boundaries. It doesn’t sound like good choices were being made at any point of the Rowland / Lynch / (Bear?) relationship.

It does sound like like entire R/L/and maybe B thing sounds like a round of terrible choices. 

In my cubicle farm job in the 00s I had two people making serious plays for me (married person with no history of pursuing others). One was in a position above me, the other was a mentee. I could tell that both of these people were not exactly emotionally healthy. I just ignored the advances and thankfully both of them ended up in different areas. It was just a difficult area to skate through and in retrospect I so dodged a couple of serious bullets by just being a good spouse and not going for a fling. Whew.   

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On 7/12/2020 at 7:24 PM, redbullmaster said:

Having reread these books, what I'm amazed at is that is these books are full of sexism, racist and have undertones of pedophilia in them. But people are happy to read them until they find out he and his wife committed child abuse. 

As for JKR, I think the point she was trying to make is there have been women sexually assaulted by men claiming to be trans women in changing rooms and Tran's women have been put in to female prison's and then commented rapes. Which has lead to fear for some of the women who share these facility's and are then told they have no choice in the matter. But if you try to raise these issues or say you have an issue with them, you're homophobic. 

Not saying I agree or disagree with these views, but I do think we should be able to talk about them like adults. 

Where has anyone anywhere in the world been sexually assaulted in a changing room by a man claiming to be transgender? I can find no reference to any such incident. Do you have a reference?

The prison assault seems to have happened once in a prison in the UK. I can't find any other proven cases of that.

So yes, condemning an entire group of people around the world on the basis of ONE incident in a prison is exhibiting anti-transgender prejudice. "Raising an issue" when the problem occurs at such an infinitesimally small level seems to me to show that one is really not talking about this as an informed adult, but as someone with irrational fears and prejudices. 

Edited by Ormond

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On 7/24/2020 at 5:02 PM, Ormond said:

Where has anyone anywhere in the world been sexually assaulted in a changing room by a man claiming to be transgender? I can find no reference to any such incident. Do you have a reference?

The prison assault seems to have happened once in a prison in the UK. I can't find any other proven cases of that.

So yes, condemning an entire group of people around the world on the basis of ONE incident in a prison is exhibiting anti-transgender prejudice. "Raising an issue" when the problem occurs at such an infinitesimally small level seems to me to show that one is really not talking about this as an informed adult, but as someone with irrational fears and prejudices. 

https://www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/12/female-prison-officers-raped-inmates-claiming-trans-rory-stewart/

Sorry, forgot about this thread, as it took awhile for my membership to be accepted. 

I don't mind going to the other thread to continue this talk, so not to corrupt this thread.

Also I will add I don't think Transgender people should be band from changing rooms or different sex prisons .

But a large number of the population do, guessing most with homophobic views. But a lot of people do based on the story's in the media, so it needs talking about to put the real facts out there. If there are issues we need to close the loop holes that sexual predators use to comment some of these crimes. 

 

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3 hours ago, redbullmaster said:

Also I will add I don't think Transgender people should be band from changing rooms or different sex prisons .

But a large number of the population do, guessing most with homophobic views. But a lot of people do based on the story's in the media, so it needs talking about to put the real facts out there. If there are issues we need to close the loop holes that sexual predators use to comment some of these crimes.

 

It seems you are referring to straight male predators' devious plans to go through transformative surgery and complete lifestyle changes so they can finally achieve their fantasy of raping women in bathrooms. Let's close that loop asap! Those pervs are crazy!

Or, perhaps, we should accept trans people and let them pee in peace. Fuck JKR and the myth that predators are using trans rights as a "loophole" for sexual assault in bathrooms. It's fear-mongering idiocy.

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On 7/28/2020 at 9:05 AM, Argonath Diver said:

It seems you are referring to straight male predators' devious plans to go through transformative surgery and complete lifestyle changes so they can finally achieve their fantasy of raping women in bathrooms. Let's close that loop asap! Those pervs are crazy!

Or, perhaps, we should accept trans people and let them pee in peace. Fuck JKR and the myth that predators are using trans rights as a "loophole" for sexual assault in bathrooms. It's fear-mongering idiocy.

Right on the money there. The idea that someone men will claim an identity group that has a guy wrenchingly high rate of violence perpetrated on it just so they can go assault women in spaces closed to them is beyond absurd. 

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As someone who has exchanged numerous e-mails with Janny Wurts, and met her in person, I can tell you she is the real deal - a very nice, kind, compassionate person, and incredibly talented.  As well as being a writer, she is an artist  and a musician. I saw one of her paintings at World Fantasy in Phoenix, and it was jaw-droppingly beautiful!  It won an award at the con, and became the cover for the U.S. edition of Traitor's Knot. 

On her website, she shows the process she went through when producing this painting: https://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/about/tips-art.php

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Disgusting how quickly people brought JKR into the conversation. A woman who has said little more than "people who menstruate are women", and who holds far more liberal views on trans issues than 99.99% of the entire human population, and according to the commentariat here she's basically adjacent to a man who tortured a child. Disgraceful. 

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