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Allardyce

The Dark Fate of the Starks

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When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.  There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others.  He left a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness.  The forest was vast and cold, and they were small, so lost.  His brothers were there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent.  He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. 

Above is a quote from A Clash of Kings, a Jon point of view chapter.

It seems to me that the Starks are meant to become a pack again.  But take careful note, sister instead of sisters.  I believe the Starks will come together again as direwolves after their human deaths.  They will each feel incomplete until they become a pack again.  Why sister instead of the plural form?  Because Sansa will not become a part of this pack.  She lost her direwolf, and her soul.  The part of Sansa which joined her to the wolves is gone. 

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Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too.  Can a shout be silent?  He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only a weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks.  The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky.  Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face.  Red eyes looked at him.  Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him.  The weirwood had his brother's face.  Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout.  Not before the crow. 

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible.  Death, he knew.  He was smelling death.  He cringed his back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark.  No one can see you, but you can see them.  But first you have to open your eyes.  See?  Like this.  And the tree reached down and touched him.

The tree was Bran.  Jon is no stranger to the smell of dead people.  But there was something upsetting about this.  This is not the smell of leftover dinner here.  No, it means something sinister and evil.  And Bran loves it.  I think Bran will go dark and become one of the villains in the story.  Many people will die because of Bran. 

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The wolves will come again, said Jojen solemnly.

The quote above has a literal meaning.  The Starks, in the form of direwolves, will come back to the ruins of Winterfell after their human deaths. 

I see dark paths and dark endings for Jon, Arya, and Bran. 

 

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Bran will betray Brynden and misuse his abilities.  Love for a girl and his family will lead him to betray his mentor.  Like Jon betrayed the lessons and teachings of Qhorin Halfhand.  This could be the Star Wars inspired subplot in the song of ice and fire.

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"He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible.  Death, he knew.  He was smelling death.  He cringed his back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark.  No one can see you, but you can see them."

At this time Bran is hiding in the crypts under Winterfell and starting to practice skinchanging. He is only sort of in control of his powers. What and how much he con convey to Jon is limited, at best.

We have had the chapter where Theon fakes killing Bran and Rickon. The huge gap where there is no Bran chapter. This is just foreshadowing to the reader where Bran really is (under the rich brown earth and grey stone of Winterfell, death is in the crypts and death in Winterfell).

Nothing sinister.

 

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10 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Why sister instead of the plural form? 

Because HE had only one sister left.

"His brothers were there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent." - this is Ghost's dream, those are Ghost's two brothers, Summer and Shaggydog, and his sister - Arya's Nymeria. Jon dreamed Ghost's thoughts, about Ghost's siblings, not about Stark-children.

ADWD, Jon I - "On the other side the wind was colder still, the wolf sensed. That was where his brother was, the grey brother who smelled of summer." - Ghost's other dream in which he felt Bran's Summer on the other side of The Wall.

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10 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Above is a quote from A Clash of Kings, a Jon point of view chapter.

It seems to me that the Starks are meant to become a pack again.  But take careful note, sister instead of sisters.  I believe the Starks will come together again as direwolves after their human deaths.  They will each feel incomplete until they become a pack again.  Why sister instead of the plural form?  Because Sansa will not become a part of this pack.  She lost her direwolf, and her soul.  The part of Sansa which joined her to the wolves is gone. 

The tree was Bran.  Jon is no stranger to the smell of dead people.  But there was something upsetting about this.  This is not the smell of leftover dinner here.  No, it means something sinister and evil.  And Bran loves it.  I think Bran will go dark and become one of the villains in the story.  Many people will die because of Bran. 

The quote above has a literal meaning.  The Starks, in the form of direwolves, will come back to the ruins of Winterfell after their human deaths. 

I see dark paths and dark endings for Jon, Arya, and Bran. 

 

They are already on that dark road by the middle of the last book. 

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Definitely getting dark. But what if there was someone else in Ghost at the time as well? Maybe it’s their brothers, Nightwatch, Kingsguard, and sister he’s been tracking?

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Pretty sure there was only 1 sister left at the time.  Lady was killed, perhaps effecting Bran's emergence from coma.  Maybe not, I cannot recall anything extraordinary happening to any of the kids when Grey Wind dies...unless that coincides with Arya's abilities to skinchange the cat?  I think the Starks in total and individually have endured enough hardship even for a fantasy family.  The wolves always inferred to me that the kids would find each other again, at least those who are left.  I hope it is not a dark ending before them.  

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13 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

They are already on that dark road by the middle of the last book. 

Bran is mind-raping his best friend, Hodor.  It is cruel but not evil.  Jon used his authority to exact revenge and murdered Janos Slynt.  That was very bad.  Very bad.  Arya, well, her heart has darkened already.  Will it get as dark as Lady Stoneheart's?  I am thinking much darker.  

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Jon's dying thoughts were revenge and Arya.  He is not coming back a good boy.  His descent into the dark started when he killed Slynt.  He has already fallen that hole.  I don't see him crawling out of that hole, regardless of which powers raise him back from death.  There is really no need to talk about Arya.  Their paths seem to follow the same arc.  Both join organizations yet their rebel nature and love for the Starks kept them from staying within the boundaries of what those groups would allow.  Jon and Arya betrayed their orders.  Bran's story may also follow the same failure.  He will become compromised by love at some point and betray Bloodraven.  I don't think it will be his affection for Meera but his devotion to his family which will lead Bran to make a bad decision at an important moment.  

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17 hours ago, Eliscat said:

Definitely getting dark. But what if there was someone else in Ghost at the time as well? Maybe it’s their brothers, Nightwatch, Kingsguard, and sister he’s been tracking?

Jon was having a wolf dream. Part of his consciousness was in the wolf.  Hence the heightened senses.  

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8 hours ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Jon's dying thoughts were revenge and Arya.  He is not coming back a good boy.  His descent into the dark started when he killed Slynt.  He has already fallen that hole.  I don't see him crawling out of that hole, regardless of which powers raise him back from death.  There is really no need to talk about Arya.  Their paths seem to follow the same arc.  Both join organizations yet their rebel nature and love for the Starks kept them from staying within the boundaries of what those groups would allow.  Jon and Arya betrayed their orders.  Bran's story may also follow the same failure.  He will become compromised by love at some point and betray Bloodraven.  I don't think it will be his affection for Meera but his devotion to his family which will lead Bran to make a bad decision at an important moment.  

Those betrayals leading to their deaths and eventual migration to an animal form will be interesting.  We have seen no clues so far of Bran betraying Bloodraven. Jon and Arya have already betrayed their people.  The watch and the faceless men.  

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16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Pretty sure there was only 1 sister left at the time.  Lady was killed, perhaps effecting Bran's emergence from coma.  Maybe not, I cannot recall anything extraordinary happening to any of the kids when Grey Wind dies...unless that coincides with Arya's abilities to skinchange the cat?  I think the Starks in total and individually have endured enough hardship even for a fantasy family.  The wolves always inferred to me that the kids would find each other again, at least those who are left.  I hope it is not a dark ending before them.  

They have not suffered as much as some families.  

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

They have not suffered as much as some families.  

True, and there is sure to be more for what's left of the Starks.   Doesn't hurt to hope not though. 

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Forget the fact about wolf sister and brothers for a second. Can we agree this part of the story is one of the creepiest, most important/misunderstood scenes in the entirety of ASOIAF:

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too.  Can a shout be silent?  He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only a weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks.  The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky.  Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face.  Red eyes looked at him.  Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him.  The weirwood had his brother's face.  Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout.  Not before the crow. 

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible.  Death, he knew.  He was smelling death.  He cringed his back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark.  No one can see you, but you can see them.  But first you have to open your eyes.  See?  Like this.  And the tree reached down and touched him.

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4 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Forget the fact about wolf sister and brothers for a second. Can we agree this part of the story is one of the creepiest, most important/misunderstood scenes in the entirety of ASOIAF:

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too.  Can a shout be silent?  He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only a weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks.  The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky.  Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face.  Red eyes looked at him.  Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him.  The weirwood had his brother's face.  Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout.  Not before the crow. 

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible.  Death, he knew.  He was smelling death.  He cringed his back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark.  No one can see you, but you can see them.  But first you have to open your eyes.  See?  Like this.  And the tree reached down and touched him.

I don’t find it all that interesting but it is creepy.  The topic author or OP is on to something though. This is a sign of a very dark future for the three Starks.  At least for Bran and Jon.  Arya is going dark but it may not lead to a dire wolf transformation.  

Edited by Widowmaker 811

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4 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

I don’t find it all that interesting but it is creepy.  The topic author or OP is on to something though. This is a sign of a very dark future for the three Starks.  At least for Bran and Jon.  Arya is going dark but it may not lead to a dire wolf transformation.  

I think your overlooking the importance of this scene.

weirwood with brans face (how?)

Brans face has 3 eyes not 2 (remember when a skinchanger, skin changes to a weirwood the weirwood takes that skin changers face- back to the above, How? Bran is in the crypts in Winterfell, how did he get into the tree from winterfell?)

Bran is speaking to Jon, How? He calls his name and then reads his thoughts and answers his questions about 3 eyes? The crow is bad...

Bran touches Jon... 

This scene has serious questions and implications that go right over the readers head. 

I agree that the wolves are a sign of the Stark children’s fate. But who of the children do I think will make it? 

Jon/Bran/Sansa (Rickon is the wildcard- forget him for now) 

I think Bran will be “alive” at the end of the series but summer wont make it

Jon will make it along with ghost 

Sansa will survive (lady already dead)

Arya will die but I can foresee her warging into Nymeria)

 

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OP

I am really not convinced by the Starks taking a dark turn. Either in the sense of it ending tragically or them becoming evil. All that will happen is a mid game passing through the shadow in which they emerge out the other side as complete individuals.

I mean they would have to do A LOT for most readers to do a double take on the Starks. This isn’t like Dany where half the fan base don’t like her, you have an entire lore book written demonising her bloodline and every other character calls her insane. George has been telling us to like these characters and relate to their struggle uncritically.

Short of Jon committing genocide on half the North to take power, or Sansa murdering children, or Arya becoming a sadist who enjoys watching the lights go out of the innocent, or Bran warging his noble court into drones and eating the hearts of babies to increase his power; readers won’t really care. If it’s just them doing bad things to bad people, after George spent three books extolling how they’ve been wronged; nobody will really bat an eyelid at it. People would hand wave collateral damage as they did with Rob Stark. More to the point, I don’t think George wants as dark a story as people think. We’re talking about a bit of edginess here at the most.

 

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17 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

I think your overlooking the importance of this scene.

weirwood with brans face (how?)

Brans face has 3 eyes not 2 (remember when a skinchanger, skin changes to a weirwood the weirwood takes that skin changers face- back to the above, How? Bran is in the crypts in Winterfell, how did he get into the tree from winterfell?)

Bran is speaking to Jon, How? He calls his name and then reads his thoughts and answers his questions about 3 eyes? The crow is bad...

Bran touches Jon... 

This scene has serious questions and implications that go right over the readers head. 

I agree that the wolves are a sign of the Stark children’s fate. But who of the children do I think will make it? 

Jon/Bran/Sansa (Rickon is the wildcard- forget him for now) 

I think Bran will be “alive” at the end of the series but summer wont make it

Jon will make it along with ghost 

Sansa will survive (lady already dead)

Arya will die but I can foresee her warging into Nymeria)

 

Sansa probably will be alive in human form at the end of the story.  She won’t be a lady or any such thing.  Just another survivor hunting and scavenging to stay alive.  Scavenging in her case.  I disagree with your predictions for Jon.  I think he bites the dust and either just die permanently or live a second life within ghost.  Bran will be alive in the trees and his wolf.  We have already read how this will be possible.  Summer can live off the wights. Bran will be nourished and absorbed by the trees.  

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On 9/14/2020 at 10:45 PM, Allardyce said:

Above is a quote from A Clash of Kings, a Jon point of view chapter.

It seems to me that the Starks are meant to become a pack again.  But take careful note, sister instead of sisters.  I believe the Starks will come together again as direwolves after their human deaths.  They will each feel incomplete until they become a pack again.  Why sister instead of the plural form?  Because Sansa will not become a part of this pack.  She lost her direwolf, and her soul.  The part of Sansa which joined her to the wolves is gone. 

The tree was Bran.  Jon is no stranger to the smell of dead people.  But there was something upsetting about this.  This is not the smell of leftover dinner here.  No, it means something sinister and evil.  And Bran loves it.  I think Bran will go dark and become one of the villains in the story.  Many people will die because of Bran. 

The quote above has a literal meaning.  The Starks, in the form of direwolves, will come back to the ruins of Winterfell after their human deaths. 

I see dark paths and dark endings for Jon, Arya, and Bran. 

 

Arya and Jon are already dark murderers.  And it's not for anything that advances the well-being of anybody.  They didn't murder the people they did to benefit people.  Jon murdered his own subordinate and sworn brother for revenge.  Arya killed two people in Braavos who had not done her any wrong.  I could be convinced to give Bran the benefit of the doubt.  I have no liking for the Starks.  But Bran seems unlike the others.  The boy got thrown out of a window and lost his legs.  With those legs his hopes and dreams.  His elders screwed themselves and the kingdom and are disgraced.  His brother rebelled and lost his war.  His head and his pet too.  Father is a known traitor.  Bastard brother is now a known traitor who got himself executed at the wall.  Both boys are disgraced oathbreakers.  All in all the kid is handling it pretty well.  He's not hateful too much.  Bran is the one in that family who I would be willing to cut some slack.  The rest can end in hell.  By slack I do not mean become lord and master of the north.  Something more useful.  Like firewood!!!!  hahah.  Just kidding.  I would be okay with Bran becoming lord of winterfell and the north.

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I knew from his first chapter that Jon would be trouble.  It's that chip on his shoulder and his temperament. 

7 hours ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Arya and Jon are already dark murderers.  And it's not for anything that advances the well-being of anybody.  They didn't murder the people they did to benefit people.  Jon murdered his own subordinate and sworn brother for revenge.  Arya killed two people in Braavos who had not done her any wrong.  I could be convinced to give Bran the benefit of the doubt.  I have no liking for the Starks.  But Bran seems unlike the others.  The boy got thrown out of a window and lost his legs.  With those legs his hopes and dreams.  His elders screwed themselves and the kingdom and are disgraced.  His brother rebelled and lost his war.  His head and his pet too.  Father is a known traitor.  Bastard brother is now a known traitor who got himself executed at the wall.  Both boys are disgraced oathbreakers.  All in all the kid is handling it pretty well.  He's not hateful too much.  Bran is the one in that family who I would be willing to cut some slack.  The rest can end in hell.  By slack I do not mean become lord and master of the north.  Something more useful.  Like firewood!!!!  hahah.  Just kidding.  I would be okay with Bran becoming lord of winterfell and the north.

Ned was alright though.  Rickon's chapter has not even begun.  There is still hope for that littlest one.  I wouldn't mind Arya, Jon, and Sansa dying soon.  That should free up more space in the last book if it happened soon enough. 

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