US Politics 47 - Biden Time (To Be Litigious)

[Mindwalker]

33 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

One would think; however, as this thread is illustrative, the circular firing squad never goes out of fashion.

And yet you didn't call out those that started it (several centrist/ moderate party Dems), only those who responded in kind.

 

On another note, an interview on how the Dems "flipped" Wisconsin - spoiler alert: Stacey Abrams might have had a tiny part to help which should by no means be overestimated, sorry I mentioned her at all just cause I found it remarkable!!)

 

[The Anti-Targ]

26 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Who fucking cares what his party identification is? I get that politics is team sports for a lot of people, but holy shit who cares what jersey someone wears. Bernie Sanders has been working with the Democrats for his entire career and to pretend he has been anything other than an ally is disgusting. The man has been out there fighting the good fight while the Democrats abandoned unions in their hour of need, made disastrous trade deals, and cozied up to Wall Street.

This is the correct take with the exception of the bit about the Lincoln Project. Those motherfuckers knew exactly what was going on, they just weren't ready to go mask off like the rest of the party unless they were getting paid for it. If Trump had done exactly the same things he did in the last 4 years, but was more polite, every single one of those scumbags would have been clamoring to get him reelected.

Maybe you should try living in the real world where the party wrapped itself wholeheartedly around Donald Trump and a small number of Republican operatives were uncomfortable with going mask off on what they have always believed and worked towards saw the opportunity to make a quick buck off of dumb liberals.

you're right, it was an issue of style rather than substance. By contrast Bernie and co are really after a fundamental change in substance. In another country, they would be forming their own political party and forcing coalition govts with the main centre-left party. Which is probably a more effective way of shifting policy to the left than fighting from within. But the US system is extremely resistant to 3rd parties actually getting any representation let alone influence.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

Don't tell my grandpa what he can't do!

Since I brought up late 80's, early 90's films before, I hope gramps isn't in need of a Weekend at Bernie's situation....

[Lollygag]

19 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Who fucking cares what his party identification is? I get that politics is team sports for a lot of people, but holy shit who cares what jersey someone wears. Bernie Sanders has been working with the Democrats for his entire career and to pretend he has been anything other than an ally is disgusting. The man has been out there fighting the good fight while the Democrats abandoned unions in their hour of need, made disastrous trade deals, and cozied up to Wall Street.

Yet it matters because when it's brought up that he's not a democrat, this board freaks. And my point is that the freak out on the right is much stronger over socialism than progressivism. Somehow, Kasich's jersey seems to matter (not that I agree with the mess he's trying to make).

As said before, socialists and progressives have a lot of crossover. They're not the same thing. Not equivalent to anyone saying he's not an ally sometimes.

25 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Maybe you should try living in the real world where the party wrapped itself wholeheartedly around Donald Trump and a small number of Republican operatives were uncomfortable with going mask off on what they have always believed and worked towards saw the opportunity to make a quick buck off of dumb liberals.

We've had 4 years of news dramatically lamenting Congressional R's bending over for Trump because they're afraid of him. I make no excuse for the cowardice, but don't try to pan this off they're all willing sycophants like Jim Jordan, etc. And yes, they all voted for him. Only because Democrats are really secret socialists and they fear this more than Trump. I was born and raised in Trump country with brainwashed relatives that I fear are lost. This portrayal is deeply offensive.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Gorn said:

The goal of liberals is to pass actual policies; the goal of conservatives is to prevent liberals from passing policies.

To accomplish their goal, liberals need the presidency and the Congress and the Senate and a friendly Supreme Court. To accomplish their goal, conservatives only need one of those.

Well, yeah. Why do you think one party wants everyone to vote while the other only wants their supporters to have easy access to the polls? 

[Mindwalker]

4 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Yeah, let me say right now god bless, but Stacey Abrahams did not flip Wisconsin back 

 

Jesus 

Sorry, that's ot what I was trying to say. Jesus.

(At first I wrote S.A. helped but I shortened it. I'll delete.)

They contacted her organisation and worked with them.

 

ETA: Fixed it.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Since I brought up late 80's, early 90's films before, I hope gramps isn't in need of a Weekend at Bernie's situation....

Fortunately no.  I don't mind the joking around, but generally this is not something you should be trying to be funny about.

[Derfel Cadarn]

British right-wing paper’s ‘take’ on Kamala Harris 

 

[Ser Reptitious]

6 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

One would think; however, as this thread is illustrative, the circular firing squad never goes out of fashion.

I agree, but the circular firing squad is firing in both directions, and it’s not helping either side.

But it does seem to me whenever that phrase is used it is almost always a moderate complaining about the left wing of the party. There definitely are moments when that is truly the case, but there also seems to be frequently an attitude of ‘the left needs to shut up and fall in line’ (at all times). That is no way to unite the party. The left has every right to their views as does the center (which, within the party itself is actually the right wing).

In short, when it comes to the ‘circular firing squad’ the moderates should also once in a while look in the mirror. 

(Personally I tend to go back on forth between the two sides depending on the strength of the argument being brought to the table, which is precisely why I find this labelling of people so frustrating!)

[Lollygag]

25 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Sanders ran on the Dem primary and satisfied all their requirements to do so, twice. it doesn't matter if he calls himself an independent or a democratic socialist or anything else.  He's long caucused with Democrats.  That's not an 'attempted hostile takeover'.  

 

By your logic Joe Biden never bothered correcting the Hunter Biden laptop and emails - does his silence on that mean he agrees it's all true?  

Still curious about what I said that could be an ad hominem, considering in that same post you accused me of intellectual dishonesty. 

If it doesn't matter what he's called, he can end the unnecessary conflict and just be a plain old Democrat from now on.

Biden wasn't silent. WTF? He's repeatedly addressed the issue by saying there's no evidence. Bernie says it's not a hostile takeover because of 1, 2, 3....But nope.

I shouldn't have to explain that Ad hominem but I will. Dismissing pundits for being pundits is an ad hominem and it willfully ignores the fact that *so many* had the hostile takeover reaction because folks all over the place had that reaction. Otherwise, they'd be wtf-ing the pundits and the pundits wouldn't be repeating that take until the end of his campaign.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, DMC said:

Fortunately no.  I don't mind the joking around, but generally this is not something you should be trying to be funny about.

Yes it is. I make jokes at my dead grandparents' expense all the time. It's not going to hurt them one bit. 

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

I did not know we were in primary season again.

We need a circular firing squad emoji.

Yes, finally we can get back to normal and go back to the time-honored infighting 

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

dude 70 million people just voted for him

Again, while 70 million voted for him EVEN MORE voted for republican candidates other than him. There was clearly some overlap. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yes it is. I make jokes at my dead grandparents' expense all the time. It's not going to hurt them one bit. 

Yeah my grandpa isn't dead.  And other people could very understandably take offense to you making a joke about the possibility of their grandparents dying.

[Raja]

Really curious to see what kind of health bill we'll see come out - there's obviously COVID to deal with so I imagine the bulk of the next 6 months if not longer will go into dealing with that but I'm curious what the finer details of Biden's public option will look like. *Hopefully* it allows undocumented immigrants and immigrants to buy into the public option too ( The ACA did a lot but didn't do much at all for that population)

On the plus side, I see Biden's health plan has something about ending Surprise Medical Billing which is much needed. The mind boggles as to how there isn't already federal legislation on that.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah my grandpa isn't dead.  And other people could very understandably take offense to you making a joke about the possibility of their grandparents dying.

Don't most liberals openly talk about how great things will be after the elderly die off?

Compare that to how we feel about Congress verse our own Congressperson. 

[GrimTuesday]

8 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Yet it matters because when it's brought up that he's not a democrat, this board freaks. And my point is that the freak out on the right is much stronger over socialism than progressivism. Somehow, Kasich's jersey seems to matter (not that I agree with the mess he's trying to make).

As said before, socialists and progressives have a lot of crossover. They're not the same thing. Not equivalent to anyone saying he's not an ally sometimes.

If you're talking about the left freaking out, it's because we're sick of this brain dead take. Kasich's jersey doesn't matter, his politics do, and hist politics are disgusting. The divergence between him and Trump is a matter of style, not substance, just like the Lincoln Project and every single Republican who has stood against Trump.

Quote

We've had 4 years of news dramatically lamenting Congressional R's bending over for Trump because they're afraid of him. I make no excuse for the cowardice, but don't try to pan this off they're all willing sycophants like Jim Jordan, etc. And yes, they all voted for him. Only because Democrats are really secret socialists and they fear this more than Trump. I was born and raised in Trump country with brainwashed relatives that I fear are lost. This portrayal is deeply offensive.

You don't seem to understand what the reality is. The modern Republican party has always been, and always will be the exact same thing that they are under Trump. As I said before, this is a matter of style, not substance. Frankly, I don't care about your brain poisoned family, I have those too. We are never going to actually get anywhere if we keep caring what those people think about us because we will probably never ever win them over by trying to ideologically appeal to them. The only shot we have, and it is an extremely long shot, is to prove to them through our actions that left wing policies will actually make their lives better. The policies of the Democratic party has failed vast swathes of the country, and it isn't because we've gone to radically far left, it is because of the failure to actually work to address the material conditions that affect every day working class people.

[Kalbear]

Also on the Sanders not being a Democrat mattering or not - it definitely matters because there are a whole lot of democrats who are proud to identify as democrats and are wanting to be part of the party. There are a lot of influential people who like the party and want it to improve its power. And this is especially true in the CBC. 

A person campaigning to be the leader of a group while remaining an outsider is going to alienate people. Kind of by design! This shouldn't be controversial. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Yeah. Some of these posts re: AOC are a little out there especially as the interview was a *response*. Also, this is perfectly the *right* time for her to talk about the direction of what Biden's transition period would be like, this 'wrong timing criticism seems odd to me. Before the election would be the wrong timing, not now, imo.

Plus, you know she won handily again -- despite the enormous amount of money and trash thrown at her by the rethugs, and not even support from the likes of the Dem Gov or Dem Schumer.  They (and others of the Dems here) have done everything they can devise to undermind her and her coalition, including forcing the Working Families Party off the ballot -- which they haven't quite managed, especially thanks to AOC and her grass roots coalitions throughout NY, and particularly NYC.

Honestly, I just love her.  She's so smart and sharp and cuts right through the bs to the thing itself when nobody else even noticed the fog.

~~~~~~~~

As far as Melania not liking being First Lady -- well, we didn't like her being First Lady even more. So there.  

 

[OnionAhaiReborn]

1 minute ago, Killjoybear said:

Again, while 70 million voted for him EVEN MORE voted for republican candidates other than him. There was clearly some overlap. 

Did they? According to the New York Times Trump outran Republican House candidates by ~2 million votes. ~71 million for Trump, ~69 million for House Reps.

Biden meanwhile outran Democratic House candidates by about ~4 million. ~75 for Biden, ~71 for the House. 

To me this suggests, in combination with the historically high turnout, that while there were no doubt ticket splitters, the real story is that this election was a referendum on Trump, who managed to engender more enthusiasm for his candidacy than last time, but also greater opposition. But the low propensity Biden voters who turned out were less likely to support down ticket Dems than the low propensity Trump voters who turned out were to support down ticket Reps. Why that was, I don't think we know yet.