UK Politics: Fishing for a deal

[Heartofice]

22 hours ago, kiko said:

So am I stating the obvious here in saying that the British government was blackmailing the EU with their illegal law? 

The internal market bill was itself  a blackmail response to the EUs own blackmail, which was weaponising it’s own threats of stalling and inaction in regards to the Joint Committees recommendations which could have led to food shortages in NI.

It’s good that this is all sorted now, but honestly let’s not pretend the EU didn’t play a part in all this.

[maarsen]

25 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The internal market bill was itself  a blackmail response to the EUs own blackmail, which was weaponising it’s own threats of stalling and inaction in regards to the Joint Committees recommendations which could have led to food shortages in NI.

It’s good that this is all sorted now, but honestly let’s not pretend the EU didn’t play a part in all this.

How did the EU manage to vote in the referendum? Put the stupidity where it belongs. Don't blame those who want nothing do do with other people's fuck ups.  

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, maarsen said:

How did the EU manage to vote in the referendum? Put the stupidity where it belongs. Don't blame those who want nothing do do with other people's fuck ups.  

Eh?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

How did the EU manage to vote in the referendum? Put the stupidity where it belongs. Don't blame those who want nothing do do with other people's fuck ups.  

Don't bother, you forgot to whom you responded. Brexiters are always the misunderstood victims, and never to blame for anything that didn't go (quite predictably) their way. Also, there's no racism, the mere idea of it, shows you are racist. So seriously what's wrong you?

 

Have I forgotten something?

[Spockydog]

Great stuff from QPR player Ilias Chair last night. Scored at Millwalll, shh'd the morons, then took the knee, along with his colleagues.

Hope this catches on.

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Great stuff from QPR player Ilias Chair last night. Scored at Millwalll, shh'd the morons, then took the knee, along with his colleagues.

Hope this catches on.

Interestingly the Millwall fans didn't boo the linking of arms in solidarity for racial descrimination or the kick it out logos on the tshirts.

[BigFatCoward]

London really should be going into tier 3. Any other city trending the same way would be dealt with. 

Or you could just actually punish all the creations on tubes and buses, in shops and bars etc who arent following the rules. 

[Werthead]

7 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

London really should be going into tier 3. Any other city trending the same way would be dealt with. 

Or you could just actually punish all the creations on tubes and buses, in shops and bars etc who arent following the rules. 

Yup.

Wales also looking like it's backsliding quickly as well. That's disappointing, given the circuit-breaker was supposed to help put a serious dent in the figures without having to do a longer type of lockdown.

This raises the question of when the figures here will start going back up again. Today's figures were better than anything since a couple of weeks before the lockdown but we haven't seen the sharp drop off in figures we did after the first lockdown (which of course was much longer).

[HexMachina]

21 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

London really should be going into tier 3. Any other city trending the same way would be dealt with. 

Or you could just actually punish all the creations on tubes and buses, in shops and bars etc who arent following the rules. 

But Sadiq Khan assures us London is being treated exactly the same as everywhere else! So I guess that addresses that...

/Sarcasm

[Chaircat Meow]

I thought this was interesting.

Maybe Brexit Isn’t So Bad After All

 

[argonak]

Quote

It is noteworthy that the U.K. approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for distribution before the EU, and to the benefit of the British people. 

Unless it turns ya'all into zombies like Shawn of the Dead.  A rapid approval of a drug is not necessarily a good thing.  An effective and safe approval process is more important.

Quote

What if it is necessary to forgive a lot of Italy’s debt to hold the euro zone together? Can you imagine a messier and more contentious debate?

Hmm.  That's not a good argument unless you also think that London shouldn't have to help Wales.

Quote

But it’s a safe bet the EU will be obsessed with matters relatively distant from British concerns for the foreseeable future.

So this fellow supports Scotland leaving the UK then?

Quote

Finally, southeast England is emerging as a global technology center, especially in artificial intelligence and biomedical research. That’s great news for the U.K. But how does it square with the EU’s long-term pursuit of tougher regulations on tech companies, higher privacy standards for platforms and apps, and more stringent regulations on AI algorithms?

Right, right.  And send the kids back to work the coal mines while you're at it.  Silly things like protecting the citizenry from corporate power were a bad idea.

All of these arguments could easily be used to support Scotland or Wales leaving the UK.  And then on to the County level when one county's interests conflict with another.  And then on down to anarchy.  I don't think these are strong cases.

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, argonak said:

Unless it turns ya'all into zombies like Shawn of the Dead.  A rapid approval of a drug is not necessarily a good thing.  An effective and safe approval process is more important.

What makes you think the UK process wasn't effective and safe? I take it then you won't be taking the vaccine?

8 minutes ago, argonak said:

Hmm.  That's not a good argument unless you also think that London shouldn't have to help Wales.

Not a good argument. London and Wales both share the same currency for one, and it isn't the EURO which a currency that has proven to be pretty problematic.

9 minutes ago, argonak said:

So this fellow supports Scotland leaving the UK then?

While it's true that much of the British political conversation is often quite London centric, the Scots have their own devolved parliament. 
 

13 minutes ago, argonak said:

All of these arguments could easily be used to support Scotland or Wales leaving the UK.  And then on to the County level when one county's interests conflict with another.  And then on down to anarchy.  I don't think these are strong cases.

Maybe, maybe not. There are similarities in terms of issues of devolution and sovereignty, more local democracy which are similar. There are differences, the UK is IMO not a good fit with the EU, it isn't looking to move in the same direction long term, it wants different things, it has never really seen itself as part of a European entity. 

[argonak]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

What makes you think the UK process wasn't effective and safe? I take it then you won't be taking the vaccine?

I'm american, and I'll take a Vaccine once its gone through the proper vetting.  I'm just saying that bragging your vetting process was fast is silly, when you should be bragging your vetting process was effective.  I could vet your vaccine right now on my own, and give you a sticker to boot.  Doesn't mean its not going to turn you into a zombie.  Well, basic rational science means it won't turn you into a zombie, but you get my point I assume.

Quote

Not a good argument. London and Wales both share the same currency for one, and it isn't the EURO which a currency that has proven to be pretty problematic.

The way I read the argument wasn't that UK shouldn't be involved helping Italy because the currency is different, but that it implied the whole of Europe will be contentious about helping Italy because of the perspective that helping Italy harms the rest of Europe.  Which is the same as London paying to help wales.  

Quote

While it's true that much of the British political conversation is often quite London centric, the Scots have their own devolved parliament. 

Scotland having their own internal government helps my point.  My point is that arguing that one portion of a larger union should leave because some of its interests might conflict with the larger union is an argument that can be repeated all the way down to you vs your neighbor.  Its an argument for California and Texas ditching the USA.  If it the UK wants to argue for some nebulous sovereingty rather than bowing to the democratic organization of the EU when they're not in the majority (which is fine), then they should expect that same argument to apply when Wales or Scotland don't like that they're losing votes on issues to England.

Quote

Maybe, maybe not. There are similarities in terms of issues of devolution and sovereignty, more local democracy which are similar. There are differences, the UK is IMO not a good fit with the EU, it isn't looking to move in the same direction long term, it wants different things, it has never really seen itself as part of a European entity. 

Maybe the UK isn't a good fit for Europe Union.   I'm not saying it is or it isn't, I'm an American and frankly I don't know.  Although when I've visited the Netherlands everyone there spoke at least some English, so, thank for that at least. 

I'm just commenting that I don't think this article makes a worthwhile argument at all, and that any argument it does make can easily be used for the the breakup of the UK which makes it an unwise direction of argument for Brexiters to support.

[Chaircat Meow]

57 minutes ago, argonak said:

Verbiage

I don't want to defend a piece I don't necessarily agree with (I just said it was interesting) but I don't think you've taken on board that he's not trying to argue for Brexit, as he thinks it was a bad idea. He's just saying that now that it has happened it may not be as bad for the UK as he thought it would be and perhaps it has some benefits. 

 

[lessthanluke]

1 hour ago, argonak said:

Unless it turns ya'all into zombies like Shawn of the Dead.  A rapid approval of a drug is not necessarily a good thing.  An effective and safe approval process is more important.

Hmm.  That's not a good argument unless you also think that London shouldn't have to help Wales.

So this fellow supports Scotland leaving the UK then?

Right, right.  And send the kids back to work the coal mines while you're at it.  Silly things like protecting the citizenry from corporate power were a bad idea.

All of these arguments could easily be used to support Scotland or Wales leaving the UK.  And then on to the County level when one county's interests conflict with another.  And then on down to anarchy.  I don't think these are strong cases.

Scotland and Wales will both leave the UK at some point. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, lessthanluke said:

Scotland and Wales will both leave the UK at some point. 

Northern Ireland too probably

[BigFatCoward]

Anyone else think Kay Burley getting pulled off the air for 6 months is a bit harsh, when compared to every other celeb/public figure who has broken the rules and literally fuck all has happened. 

[Hereward]

29 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Anyone else think Kay Burley getting pulled off the air for 6 months is a bit harsh, when compared to every other celeb/public figure who has broken the rules and literally fuck all has happened. 

No. She’s one of the most loathsome figures in British culture. And that’s one hell of a field.

She still needs to be punished for tweeting a picture of a dog looking sad at the news of the Bataclan attack. Moron.

[Heartofice]

Kay Burley is 60. I did not know that.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There are differences, the UK is IMO not a good fit with the EU, it isn't looking to move in the same direction long term, it wants different things

This is a similarity, not a difference. Swap 'Scotland' for 'the UK' and 'the UK' for 'the EU' and you have summed up every SNP campaign for the last forty years.