Football: Make us dream, Paulo

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

So is Moyes now genuinely a great manager, or is he just a good manager who cannot make the step up?

Personally I don't think he'd ever be at the level required for a Man U; Ferguson just got so caught up in finding a young version of himself that he let sentimentality interfere with his judgement.

I think there is a limit to the type of football that Moyes plays, its effective and is a great counter against a lot of teams, but is it the sort of thing that a big side would use to against smaller teams who sit and park the bus? I think it would struggle. At United Moyes was a figure of fun for the over reliance on crossing, which is a bit unfair but it certainly isn't the sort of football that is destined to consistently win the big trophies. 

I think Moyes is a very good manager, in the right situation, and like almost all managers, they can only succeed if everything around them is not totally disfunctional. 

[mormont]

It's fair to say that Moyes is a better manager than he was when he got the Man United job, and partly he's a better manager because he had the ability to learn lessons from having (and losing) that job. But he's not a great manager. Maybe he could become one, but he has a way to go however we measure it.

[Spockydog]

Loving the Watford whining today about our goal yesterday. I would have more sympathy with Ranieri moaning about Arsenal's so-called lack of honour if he hadn't sent his team out with clear instructions to foul our players at every opportunity. They made the most fouls out of any team over the weekend, so he can go fuck himself.

 

[Spockydog]

52 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Who would have thought Arsenal would be 3 pts off 2nd at this stage after losing their first 3 games. Stability, funny enough, helps.

I also loved the stream of pundits over the weekend, men as old as me, saying that Ramsdale's free kick save last week was the best save they have ever seen. Not the best save from a FK, but the best save. Period.

Top four is on. Anyone who says it isn't clearly hasn't been paying attention.

And I will even go out on a limb and predict that Arsenal will have at least four players in England's squad for next year's World Cup.

 

 

[Spockydog]

Absolute fucking state of this. Fan sentiment graphs. No wonder people are laughing at them.

 

[Soylent Brown]

38 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Loving the Watford whining today about our goal yesterday. I would have more sympathy with Ranieri moaning about Arsenal's so-called lack of honour if he hadn't sent his team out with clear instructions to foul our players at every opportunity. They made the most fouls out of any team over the weekend, so he can go fuck himself.

 

You guys would have been moaning your heads off too, if it had happened the other way around.

[Spockydog]

2 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

You guys would have been moaning your heads off too, if it had happened the other way around.

Of course we would. But it didn't. So tough titty.

Anyway, fuck 'em. They fouled us at every opportunity. But whenever one of our players went anywhere near them, they fell over, feigning injury. Danny Rose should have been sent off at least twice just for being Danny Rose. And seeing the former Spurs player telling his mate to stay on the ground just before we scored. Ahahahahahahahaha!

 

 

[Darryk]

The topic of Moyes got me thinking, is Scotland any longer capable of producing coaches who can get jobs at the very top clubs?

There was a time when some of the best coaches (and players) around were Scottish, what happened?

[Spockydog]

8 minutes ago, Darryk said:

There was a time when some of the best coaches (and players) around were Scottish, what happened?

Deep fried Mars Bars.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Isn't it more like British managers in general?

The top jobs are atm held by non-Brits.

Guardiola (Spain, City)

Klopp (Germany, Liverpool)

Tuchel (Germany, Chelsea)

Solskjaer [as of the time of this posting] (Norway, United)

Arteta (Spain, Arsenal)

Conte (Italy, Spurs)

The only notable exception is 

Southgate (England, England NT).

The next best British managers are probably Rodgers (NI, Leicester) and Moyes (Scotland, West Ham).

I think from the British managers waiting to get a better job Potter (England, Brighton) is the stand out prospect IMO. Next tier would then already be Gerrard (England, that other club from Glasgow) and maybe Howe (England) if he does well at NU.

I excluded Dyche, as I am not sure that he is much more than better Sam Allardyce, yet.  

[BigFatCoward]

25 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Isn't it more like British managers in general?

The top jobs are atm held by non-Brits.

Guardiola (Spain, City)

Klopp (Germany, Liverpool)

Tuchel (Germany, Chelsea)

Solskjaer [as of the time of this posting] (Norway, United)

Arteta (Spain, Arsenal)

Conte (Italy, Spurs)

The only notable exception is 

Southgate (England, England NT).

The next best British managers are probably Rodgers (NI, Leicester) and Moyes (Scotland, West Ham).

I think from the British managers waiting to get a better job Potter (England, Brighton) is the stand out prospect IMO. Next tier would then already be Gerrard (England, that other club from Glasgow) and maybe Howe (England) if he does well at NU.

I excluded Dyche, as I am not sure that he is much more than better Sam Allardyce, yet.  

If he does well there are not that many better jobs. It's clearly a bigger club than City or Chelsea, and it's lot even close. And the jobs that are bigger now won't be that much bigger if he is a success. 

[Darryk]

23 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Isn't it more like British managers in general?

The top jobs are atm held by non-Brits.

Guardiola (Spain, City)

Klopp (Germany, Liverpool)

Tuchel (Germany, Chelsea)

Solskjaer [as of the time of this posting] (Norway, United)

Arteta (Spain, Arsenal)

Conte (Italy, Spurs)

The only notable exception is 

Southgate (England, England NT).

The next best British managers are probably Rodgers (NI, Leicester) and Moyes (Scotland, West Ham).

I think from the British managers waiting to get a better job Potter (England, Brighton) is the stand out prospect IMO. Next tier would then already be Gerrard (England, that other club from Glasgow) and maybe Howe (England) if he does well at NU.

I excluded Dyche, as I am not sure that he is much more than better Sam Allardyce, yet.  

Yeah I guess I mean British managers in general. I singled out Scotland specifically because they produced the managers that started the rise to greatness at Man U (Matt Busby) and Liverpool (Bill Shankly).

The decline of Scottish players is another issue that interests me. England still produces good players, whereas Scotland don't, despite having produced the best at one stage. The great English teams of the 60s, 70s and 80s were packed with Scottish players.

 

[BigFatCoward]

3 minutes ago, Darryk said:

 

The decline of Scottish players is another issue that interests me. England still produces good players, whereas Scotland don't, despite having produced the best at one stage. The great English teams of the 60s, 70s and 80s were packed with Scottish players.

 

Hansen, Souness, Dalglish may be the greatest core in british football history. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

19 minutes ago, Darryk said:

Yeah I guess I mean British managers in general. I singled out Scotland specifically because they produced the managers that started the rise to greatness at Man U (Matt Busby) and Liverpool (Bill Shankly).

The decline of Scottish players is another issue that interests me. England still produces good players, whereas Scotland don't, despite having produced the best at one stage. The great English teams of the 60s, 70s and 80s were packed with Scottish players.

 

That's true. While of course Scotland has a small population, it's still bigger than Uruguay's, which managed to have a lot more top footballers in the less decades.

 

[baxus]

6 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I'd say great manager is stretching it. Moyes is like Roy Hodgson - a solid manager who can overperform with certain clubs but is out of his depth at the biggest clubs with high expectations and big egos.

While I wouldn't count Moyes as a great manager, it's a bit harsh to say "he's out of his debt at the biggest clubs with high expectations and big egos" when his only experience regarding that is a club in shambles that has chewed up and spit out two managers who have definitely had sufficient experience with "big clubs and big egos"

[Darryk]

9 minutes ago, baxus said:

While I wouldn't count Moyes as a great manager, it's a bit harsh to say "he's out of his debt at the biggest clubs with high expectations and big egos" when his only experience regarding that is a club in shambles that has chewed up and spit out two managers who have definitely had sufficient experience with "big clubs and big egos"

 

How much of that could have been down to damage that Moyes' term had done? He basically tried to start Man United from scratch.

[Raja]

Smith Rowe called up to England now that Rashford has pulled out.

My sons are thriving

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

19 minutes ago, Darryk said:

 

How much of that could have been down to damage that Moyes' term had done? He basically tried to start Man United from scratch.

That was more the mess Ferguson left behind.

Ferguson left an overaged squad behind. Yes, he managed to squeeze one last EPL title out of it by some miracle. But he failed to rejuvenate the squad during his final years, the way he had done before. Whoever came in was set up to fail, with a squad way past it. And that last EPL title was another millstone around his successors neck. Ofc, Ferguson will argue, he didn't bring in young players to give his successor free reign. But this way the squad had to be really started from scratch, with the added expectation that that jolly band of soon retirees had just won the league, thus it was perfectly fine.

[Iskaral Pust]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

It's fair to say that Moyes is a better manager than he was when he got the Man United job, and partly he's a better manager because he had the ability to learn lessons from having (and losing) that job. But he's not a great manager. Maybe he could become one, but he has a way to go however we measure it.

Did he really learn all that much?  He was quite a good manager at Everton (and at Preston before that).  He failed badly at United, and then seemed to have zero positive impact at any of his subsequent jobs, including his first stint at West Ham, until now it finally clicked for him at his second stint at West Ham in a situation that feels quite similar to his Everton days.

I haven’t watched his teams much post-United, but it doesn’t seem like he learned much over those years.  Instead he found a situation where his original abilities are a good fit.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I haven’t watched his teams much post-United, but it doesn’t seem like he learned much over those years.  Instead he found a situation where his original abilities are a good fit.

I dunno. The football his West Ham team is serving up is unlike anything we've seen from him before.