Jump to content

Write here your unpopular opinion about asoiaf


Odej

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

these examples are not the same really. from time to time we get little bits of information about Rhaegar which either contradicts with some other info we got earlier or work with them in a way. that builds up a mystery around him . that makes the reader wonder who he really was and what he really wanted. it's not that different for Aegon C . you hear of all things he's done and then it makes you want to know him as a character not just a kingly figure. Quaithe is something else. she just pops up and says stuff. there is honestly not much to go further than "what the hell?" .. there is not much mystery around her . there is not much anything around her. she is a mystery herself . the only reason people speculate about her and she has become subject of debate is that books are taking forever to come out which leads to grand theories and connecting points from all the universe to make sense of the characters who don't make much sense.... granted though, the Three Eyed Crow wouldn't have been much of a character if he wasn't revealed to Bloodraven ( in my opinion , George should write a bit about how Bloodraven's agenda has changed/altered to whatever it is now or tTEC will be a sloppy character nonetheless) . so, same could go for Quaithe in the future. but the point is there is nothing now.

Yes, agreed. Also, while Rhaegar's actions with Lyanna are still somewhat mysterious, and accounts of him are somewhat conflicted (especially in Book 1), we nevertheless can construct a pretty good idea of his personality and some of his motives from the various perspectives across the 5 books. 

I have such a good impression of Rhaegar's personality that I immediately recognized him in another GRRM story: Fevre Dream. It was nice to see him play a more prominent role there. :)

In contrast, Quaithe seems like an empty plot construct. I'm fine with her being so. She's kind of like a dream guide in a David Lynch film (the Man From Another Place in Twin Peaks, the mystery man in Lost Highway). But she's not interesting in and of herself.

Edited by Phylum of Alexandria
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think so too. Quaithe isn't a charcter in the full sense. She keeps on warning Dany about other people (and as far as we can already see, that warnings seem to be justified - but she could still be an enemy rather than a "dangerous friend"). And she speaks, well not really in riddles, but so that there is always a space left for interpretation (perfumed senechal anyone?). But in my opinion that doesn't make her boring or justifies theories about her identity. But, of course, with this I have proven that this theory is indeed unpopular.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2021 at 12:47 AM, Apoplexy said:

If Jaime and Cersei weren't related, Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella would still be illegitimate. I don't understand how them being related affects the plot in any way. The incest just seems like a cheap way to attract eyeballs. Which the novels don't need since the rest of the plot (political intrigue included) is pretty compelling.

For better or for worse, not having Jaime and Cersei related would necessitate a lot of changes to the story. I'm speaking at the character level here. What does the family dynamic look like for Tryion, Cersei, and Jamie if there's no relationship between Cersei and Jamie? It would be very different and those changes would ripple out through the entire story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, EggBlue said:

these examples are not the same really. from time to time we get little bits of information about Rhaegar which either contradicts with some other info we got earlier or work with them in a way. that builds up a mystery around him . that makes the reader wonder who he really was and what he really wanted. it's not that different for Aegon C . you hear of all things he's done and then it makes you want to know him as a character not just a kingly figure. Quaithe is something else. she just pops up and says stuff. there is honestly not much to go further than "what the hell?" .. there is not much mystery around her . there is not much anything around her. she is a mystery herself . the only reason people speculate about her and she has become subject of debate is that books are taking forever to come out which leads to grand theories and connecting points from all the universe to make sense of the characters who don't make much sense.... granted though, the Three Eyed Crow wouldn't have been much of a character if he wasn't revealed to Bloodraven ( in my opinion , George should write a bit about how Bloodraven's agenda has changed/altered to whatever it is now or tTEC will be a sloppy character nonetheless) . so, same could go for Quaithe in the future. but the point is there is nothing now.

Idk about that. Quiathe seemed like a big subject among fans when i first started reading. This was before the show finished though and there were many theories about her and possibly Ashara Dayne. The above theory wasn't just my theory, many people think Dany is Ashara's child and Ashara is Quiathe. Some think Dany and Jon are twins, some think Rhaegar hooked up with both. I've seen a lot of theories. Most though center around Quiathe being Ashara by way of the stars.

For me, Quiathe was never a major player to worry about past why she wanted Dany to remember who she was. Who Quiathe was, didn't seem as much the point.  Be she Ashara or someone else. 

The biggest Quiathe things was implying Dany isn't who she thinks she is. I just think fan's find her mysterious like Rhaegar or Aegon. Whether more is known about them or not, they are mysterious. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought of a few more:

I think that, on an unconscious level, one of the reasons why so many books fans love Stannis is because the people he trusts the most, Melisandre and Davos, were both lowborn commoners who advanced due to some skill or virtue of theirs. As 21st Century people--and descendants of peasants, most of us--we find this more admirable than someone who was born into an ancient and noble house.

The only way to enjoy any of the romantic relationships in this series is to accept that they're all toxic to one degree or another. It's like how you can only enjoy The Vampire Diaries (don't even play: I know at least some of you have watched it) by accepting that every character is a terrible person by real-world standards.

In the books, the groundwork for Bran becoming king is all over ACOK--we see over and over again that little Bran is wise and patient beyond his years, and has surprisingly good judgement. We see this in the Targaryen history too, with Jaehaerys I, Viserys II, and Aegon V--three of the best kings--all showing promise at a young age. People just got so obsessed with the idea that Bran was going to become a tree that they couldn't imagine any other future for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my Targ Edition:

Dany: after what already seems to be Mad Cersei arc, a Mad Dany arc will send a terrible message: women get mad when they are in power. if George has any sense , in the worst case scenario he could do what he did to Rhaenaera: tragically give her an infamous reputation she won't nearly deserve. though , that would also be a terrible ending for the character.

Aegon: it's too convenient that mummer's dragon vision actually means Aegon's fake in identity ( rather than personality for example). that's like the first interpretation the reader and Dany would make which makes it boring. also, there are two types of people who would downright assume Aegon is not legit and refuse to consider other possibilities : 1) people who think he steals Dany's thunder as the rightful queen 2) people who think he steals Jon's thunder as the secret prince... the Blackfyre theory is fun and all but I hope Aegon is legit so I can laugh at the others if not anything else!!

Jon:  Rhaegar and Lyanna both seem like good people but I hate any possibility of them having been together .thus, I hope Jon is not Rhaegar's son . Jon doesn't have to be his  son to be a prominent character. he already is.:) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The truth about Aegon's true identity will never be known  Illyrio and Varys will take the secret with them into the grave without telling anyone the truth.

In fact it's totally possible that Varys deceived Illyrio too and that he's the only one knowing the full truth of Aegon's parentage. 

Daenerys and others may come to believe that Aegon is a fake but they'll never have the proofs or means to prove it, which means that if the Second Dance really happens then Daenerys will wear the image of a kinslayer and usurper who killed and stole her nephew's throne no matter what.

Edited by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  1. Stannis is already dead.  He lost the Battle for Winterfell and the Boltons killed him.
  2. Arya Stark has started going insane and she will continue to murder until she is killed.
  3. Sansa Stark will die but won't get the benefit of a second life as a wolf.  The other Stark kids will die too but they get a second chance to live as wolves.
  4. Daenerys Targaryen will start up a new Empire of the Dawn shortly after the end of winter.
  5. Jorah Mormont will become the next lord commander at the watch.  Tyrion will take the vows of the watch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2021 at 7:50 AM, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy are complete idiots.  Theon is the village fool and Jon does not have much processing going on upstairs.  How they got this far in life is luck.

I think exactly the same about Dunk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/14/2021 at 2:28 PM, Groo said:

For better or for worse, not having Jaime and Cersei related would necessitate a lot of changes to the story. I'm speaking at the character level here. What does the family dynamic look like for Tryion, Cersei, and Jamie if there's no relationship between Cersei and Jamie? It would be very different and those changes would ripple out through the entire story.

It would necessitate a lot of changes for sure, but I personally think it would be a better story. Tyrion-Jaime dynamic stays similar because of how terrible Tywin was. As for Tyrion and Cersei, a similar dynamic could be maintained if they grew up together without being related.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2021 at 9:25 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

A little while back, I posted on here about how I saw someone get really upset online about how Alyssa Targaryen (Jaehaerys’ daughter) was written as so sexual in FaB. What bothered them was that Alyssa was 15, not that she was having sex with her brother. For whatever reason, people are willing to overlook the incest, even though it’s much less normal in our society than teenagers having sex is. Maybe that’s why they’re able to overlook it. (Granted, if the people sleeping with their relatives in this series weren’t described as hot, more people would probably be grossed out by it).

GRRM definitely downplays the incest aspect when stories are largely about Targs. Which is why I think readers often overlook it. If he doesn't, I suppose there isn't room to focus on anything else. But when stories are told with non targ characters in focus, the incest is a bigger deal. It just seems a bit jarring to me. Which is why i think it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Apoplexy said:

GRRM definitely downplays the incest aspect when stories are largely about Targs. Which is why I think readers often overlook it. If he doesn't, I suppose there isn't room to focus on anything else. But when stories are told with non targ characters in focus, the incest is a bigger deal. It just seems a bit jarring to me. Which is why i think it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

I think this is why a potential Dany/Jon romance can't work out if the story is to have any internal consistency. The WOT5K is precipitated on the fruits of Jaime and Cersei's incest; if their incest is bad, then it doesn't make sense for for Jonerys' incest to be good.

On 12/16/2021 at 8:52 PM, EggBlue said:

my Targ Edition:

Dany: after what already seems to be Mad Cersei arc, a Mad Dany arc will send a terrible message: women get mad when they are in power. if George has any sense , in the worst case scenario he could do what he did to Rhaenaera: tragically give her an infamous reputation she won't nearly deserve. though , that would also be a terrible ending for the character.

This is what I expect to happen. Even in the show Dany didn't real seem mad, just cruel. I expect many betrayals, losses, and disappointments to harden her heart. (I also think we'll see an Alicent parallel with Aegon taking Cersei hostage in the Red Keep. JonCon will probably be at war for most of TWOW, so Cersei could be a vital POV for seeing what's going on in King's Landing).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/15/2021 at 1:38 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think that, on an unconscious level, one of the reasons why so many books fans love Stannis is because the people he trusts the most, Melisandre and Davos, were both lowborn commoners who advanced due to some skill or virtue of theirs. As 21st Century people--and descendants of peasants, most of us--we find this more admirable than someone who was born into an ancient and noble house.

Meh, I think that a lot of people relate to Stannis, they have their personality and feel the same lack of love and acknowledgement and see how people fall in love without a reason for frivolous people like Robert and Renly. 

That's why imo one of the reasons Renly is so heavily disliked among the fandom, he represents all those "idiots" who are loved unjustly, given things without deserve it and get promoted over "hard working people" like Stannis.

My unpopular opinion hehehe.

Edited by frenin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think this is why a potential Dany/Jon romance can't work out if the story is to have any internal consistency. The WOT5K is precipitated on the fruits of Jaime and Cersei's incest; if their incest is bad, then it doesn't make sense for for Jonerys' incest to be good.

GRRM's original outline involved a Jon-Arya romance. They were supposed to feel guilty about it since they thought they were half siblings, but that resolved when it turned out they were first cousins. I think that's where GRRM plans to take the Jon-Dany romance, which really doesn't work for me. It's inconsistent as hell.

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is what I expect to happen. Even in the show Dany didn't real seem mad, just cruel. I expect many betrayals, losses, and disappointments to harden her heart. (I also think we'll see an Alicent parallel with Aegon taking Cersei hostage in the Red Keep. JonCon will probably be at war for most of TWOW, so Cersei could be a vital POV for seeing what's going on in King's Landing).

Having Dany made out to be the bad guy (mad or not) after Cersei being 'the mother of madness' would just be terrible. Its like women cannot handle power without becoming hysterical. Women are either naive and meek (Sansa so far), murderous (Arya) or just mad (Cersei/Dany). And someone like Brienne who has been level headed so far doesn't count because she is ugly. I personally don't think she is unattractive in the books, just not traditionally feminine. But the fact that all characters she meets make it a point to remark on her unattractiveness isn't an accident, but a deliberate decision by GRRM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daenerys was never meant to be queen of the Seven Kingdoms and to sit the Iron Throne, her destiny is to help save humanity from the Others. The Iron Throne will never give her what she really wants or any hapiness, and in fact she would be happier to stay in Essos rather than go to Westeros even if we all know it's never going to happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon Snow doesn't have what it takes to rule even if R+L=J turns out to be true.  Jon is a Wildling at heart and a savage.  He will never be the ruler of Westeros.  The eventual ruler of Westeros will be either Daenerys Targaryen or Aegon Blackfyre.  I would prefer Daenerys as she is the better leader of the two. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...