Why did people of Stoney Sept help Robert?

[EggBlue]

 

I might have missed something since I'm not done rereading the books but I can't figure out why people of this town were so loyal to Robert Baratheon .

Quote

And so he swept down on Stoney Sept, closed off the town, and began a search. His knights went house to house, smashed in every door, peered into every cellar. He had even sent men crawling through the sewers, yet somehow Robert still eluded him. The townsfolk were hiding him. They moved him from one secret bolt-hole to the next, always one step ahead of the king’s men. The whole town was a nest of traitors. At the end they had the usurper hidden in a brothel.

now Stoney Sept is big town , not a small village. so how did Robert won every single one of the smallfolk over? he does seem to have been a charismatic leader in his youth .... but that much? 

It would have made perfect sense if Stoney Sept was in Stormlands considering that it seems Robert had been a good Lord, but it is in Riverlands which I think hadn't even openly declared for Robert in that time yet .

It would have been also understandable if Aerys's mental health was so commonly known that his subjects secretly loathed him . still that doesn't seem to be the case since his reign was supposedly prosperous for the smallfolk and his madness was only for the nobles he thought to be enemies.

It would have even made sense if Connington was unpopular among citizens of this specific town but he was a lord from another land and he was recently made hand. they didn't seem to have any reason to defy him... I thought he might have been too harsh since the beginning of the search but then again Jon also thinks of how he offered rewards . and even if he didn't and was just hanging people from the start, why would they defend a foreign rebel lord instead of saving their own people?

Quote

For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do. His soldiers searched every hole and hovel, he offered pardons and rewards, he took hostages and hung them in crow cages and swore that they would have neither food nor drink until Robert was delivered to him

 

does anyone have any idea or clue? 

OR ...  do you think Martin didn't really thought of that and wanted to have a traumatized JonCon who had done everything in his power before so is now potentially ruthless? 

[Canon Claude]

We don’t know Robert was a good lord, especially since half the Storm Lords sided with the Crown. So, putting the Stoney Sept in the Stormlands wouldn’t fix that issue.

[frenin]

23 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

now Stoney Sept is big town , not a small village. so how did Robert won every single one of the smallfolk over? he does seem to have been a charismatic leader in his youth .... but that much?

He was telling them the funniest joke they ever heard and didn't tell them the punchline so they had to protect him.

In truth, it just seems like they liked Robert and were willing to protect him. 

 

13 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

We don’t know Robert was a good lord, especially since half the Storm Lords sided with the Crown. So, putting the Stoney Sept in the Stormlands wouldn’t fix that issue.

That has little to nothing to do one with the other. Siding with the crown doesn't mean you are a bad lord.

Just that those Lords have important ties with the crown. Just because you're a good lord doesn't mean people have to want to become traitors for you.

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

The townsfolk were so enamored with how Robert rung their bells in the brothels they had to keep him safe.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I might have missed something since I'm not done rereading the books but I can't figure out why people of this town were so loyal to Robert Baratheon .

They weren't.  He was actually in the whorehouse the whole time.  It was the first place he went, not the last.

[Jaenara Belarys]

Presumably, whoever rules in Stoney Sept was loyal to Lord Hoster and going by the feudal system they'd have to harbor Robert by their lord's command. That, or it was needed for plot. 

[Lord Varys]

We don't know, but that's actually an interesting question George could explain somehow. Say, Robert spending considerable time there during an earlier time of the Riverlands, say, after the Tourney of Harrenhal.

[Daenerysthegreat]

Maybe because he was handsome and warrior type. Medieval people were highly impressed by such figures. 

[Rosetta Stone]

The people of the river lands are not of one mind.  Many were very loyal to Aerys.  This village was not.  They were loyal to House Tully. 

[frenin]

24 minutes ago, Rosetta Stone said:

The people of the river lands are not of one mind.  Many were very loyal to Aerys.  This village was not.  They were loyal to House Tully. 

The Tullys hadn't joined the rebels by that point. It's because Robert is trapped in Stony Sept that Ned and Jon Arryn go knock to Hoster's house.

[Tucu]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

The Tullys hadn't joined the rebels by that point. It's because Robert is trapped in Stony Sept that Ned and Jon Arryn go knock to Hoster's house.

As usual with GRRM the timeline is ambiguous but Hoster fought in the Battle of the Bells; he had enough time to call banners and march. Arryn's heir died in the battle and gave Hoster the opportunity to also marry Lisa to Jon (in addition to Cat and Ned)

[EggBlue]

 

11 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

The townsfolk were so enamored with how Robert rung their bells in the brothels they had to keep him safe.

well , I imagine Stoney Sept's economy could flourish with Robert's visits  

 

11 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

They weren't.  He was actually in the whorehouse the whole time.  It was the first place he went, not the last.

I did think about that. I suppose it would fit Robert's personality the most if he had been in the brothel all along and was just moved from under one bed to another . but Jon seems to think he was moved from house to house which of course could be wrong.

 

6 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Maybe because he was handsome and warrior type. Medieval people were highly impressed by such figures. 

being handsome and warrior type could make a man popular among them but would it work when their friends were being hanged? and by the way I assume JonCon and his party would have looked handsome with their fine clothes and armors... even glorious by medieval standards and all while they were the king's men.

 

[John Suburbs]

18 hours ago, EggBlue said:

 

I might have missed something since I'm not done rereading the books but I can't figure out why people of this town were so loyal to Robert Baratheon .

now Stoney Sept is big town , not a small village. so how did Robert won every single one of the smallfolk over? he does seem to have been a charismatic leader in his youth .... but that much? 

It would have made perfect sense if Stoney Sept was in Stormlands considering that it seems Robert had been a good Lord, but it is in Riverlands which I think hadn't even openly declared for Robert in that time yet .

It would have been also understandable if Aerys's mental health was so commonly known that his subjects secretly loathed him . still that doesn't seem to be the case since his reign was supposedly prosperous for the smallfolk and his madness was only for the nobles he thought to be enemies.

It would have even made sense if Connington was unpopular among citizens of this specific town but he was a lord from another land and he was recently made hand. they didn't seem to have any reason to defy him... I thought he might have been too harsh since the beginning of the search but then again Jon also thinks of how he offered rewards . and even if he didn't and was just hanging people from the start, why would they defend a foreign rebel lord instead of saving their own people?

 

does anyone have any idea or clue? 

OR ...  do you think Martin didn't really thought of that and wanted to have a traumatized JonCon who had done everything in his power before so is now potentially ruthless? 

Good question. My only guess is that by now word would have gotten out that Hoster Tully had joined Ned and Jon Arryn and were on their way to rescue Robert. If they arrived and realized that Robert had been handed over without a fight, the town would have burned. Hoster did that to other loyalist sites, as I recall.

But I also doubt that every last townsperson was a traitor. Most likely there were a few sympathizers on each side and the vast majority didn't care either way. So the rebel sympathizers were able to keep Robert hidden as he moved from place to place. If the whole town was on his side, there would have been no reason to move him.

[Loose Bolt]

Money. Or if Robert had been captured he would not had been able to pay all services of whores and wine he had drunk.

[frenin]

45 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Hoster did that to other loyalist sites, as I recall.

Would not they believe like JonCon that the Robellion would be over without Robert?

 

46 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

If the whole town was on his side, there would have been no reason to move him.

If JonCon was searching house after house, there would have been a very good reason to move him. And I'd argue that those who didn't care would have a greater reason to rat Robert out, since it means the occupation is over. The longer the search dragged out, the bloodier it gets. If you have no horse in the race, you don't want that.

[John Suburbs]

On 11/1/2021 at 11:34 AM, frenin said:

Would not they believe like JonCon that the Robellion would be over without Robert?

 

If JonCon was searching house after house, there would have been a very good reason to move him. And I'd argue that those who didn't care would have a greater reason to rat Robert out, since it means the occupation is over. The longer the search dragged out, the bloodier it gets. If you have no horse in the race, you don't want that.

Maybe the rebellion would be over, but with Hoster Tully at the head of an army bearing down on them there would be no reason to believe he wouldn't take his vengeance on the town, his town, that ended it.

 

True, which is why they kept moving him, because people -- either overt loyalists or scared townsfolk or maybe just someone looking for coin -- kept ratting him out. My point was that the entire town was not loyal to Robert, otherwise there would have been no reason to move him.

[frenin]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Maybe the rebellion would be over, but with Hoster Tully at the head of an army bearing down on them there would be no reason to believe he wouldn't take his vengeance on the town, his town, that ended it.

I don't, btw, believe that the Robellion would be over with Robert.

Yet assuming that to be the case... Why would Hoster burn down his own lands?? He's a no nonsense guy but he doesn't strike as bloodthirsty. This type of behavior is unlikely for even Tywin.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

True, which is why they kept moving him, because people -- either overt loyalists or scared townsfolk or maybe just someone looking for coin -- kept ratting him out. My point was that the entire town was not loyal to Robert, otherwise there would have been no reason to move him.

I agree with the latter sentiment, it seems unlikely that Robert gained the hearts of all of them,  people with no particular desire to be burned alive at that.

I'm simply arguing that they don't need to rat him out for the townsfolk to move him from hideout to hideout. JonCon's search was nothing if not methodical, man sent men to the sewers even, with that kind of search there's no reason to rat Robert out, keeping him on the move is the obvious choice. I'd agree with your statement if Stony Sept was as big as White Harbor or similar, but it's just a big town. A big enough army with a thorough enough search is already enough to explain the constant movement.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Why did Lord Walder Frey help Robb Stark?  The wolfboy had something to offer.  Robert's allies could have promised something of value to the people. 

[John Suburbs]

20 hours ago, frenin said:

I don't, btw, believe that the Robellion would be over with Robert.

Yet assuming that to be the case... Why would Hoster burn down his own lands?? He's a no nonsense guy but he doesn't strike as bloodthirsty. This type of behavior is unlikely for even Tywin.

 

 

I agree with the latter sentiment, it seems unlikely that Robert gained the hearts of all of them,  people with no particular desire to be burned alive at that.

I'm simply arguing that they don't need to rat him out for the townsfolk to move him from hideout to hideout. JonCon's search was nothing if not methodical, man sent men to the sewers even, with that kind of search there's no reason to rat Robert out, keeping him on the move is the obvious choice. I'd agree with your statement if Stony Sept was as big as White Harbor or similar, but it's just a big town. A big enough army with a thorough enough search is already enough to explain the constant movement.

He did it elsewhere:

Quote

"Did the Lannisters kill the people who lived here?" Arya asked as she helped Anguy dry the horses.

"No." He pointed. "Look at how thick the moss grows on the stones. No one's moved them for a long time. And there's a tree growing out of the wall there, see? This place was put to the torch a long time ago."

"Who did it then?" asked Gendry.

"Hoster Tully." Notch was a stooped thin grey-haired man, born in these parts. "This was Lord Goodbrook's village. When Riverrun declared for Robert, Goodbrook stayed loyal to the king, so Lord Tully came down on him with fire and sword. After the Trident, Goodbrooke's son made his peace with Robert and Lord Hoster, but that didn't help the dead none." 

And this type of behavior is exactly what Tywin did in the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion.

 

It's a pretty big town. On the order of Fairmarket or even Saltpans, I would say. It's right at the headwater of the Rush, which makes it a pretty major trading point.

If it was a methodical search than it would have been very predictable, so they could have squired Robert away in the safest place, and maybe moved him once to a site that had already been searched. The fact that they had to move him repeatedly indicates that JonCon was being tipped off as to where he was, which would come either from townsfolk trying to save their loved ones, or loyalists or men who are just out for coin. JonCon said "the whole town as nest of traitors," but he lost and is a bitter old man now.

[frenin]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

He did it elsewhere:

No, he attacked settlements with military value. He went there to attack loyalists. He didn't attack them out of spite when the battle was lost.

Robb was out there in the Westerlands making them pay in kind, yet I have a very hard time seeing him attacking people with no beef with him.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

And this type of behavior is exactly what Tywin did in the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion.

Is it now?? Hoster did kill Lord Goodbrok but he didn't end his line and he made his peace with the son.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

It's a pretty big town. On the order of Fairmarket or even Saltpans, I would say. It's right at the headwater of the Rush, which makes it a pretty major trading point.

Is it now?? We're never told.  Not big enough to provide a solid hideout tho.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

 it was a methodical search than it would have been very predictable, so they could have squired Robert away in the safest place, and maybe moved him once to a site that had already been searched.

This assuming that there was an actual safest place or that JonCon didn't have a men or two in every searched site nearby. You're assuming way too much.

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

The fact that they had to move him repeatedly indicates that JonCon was being tipped off as to where he was, which would come either from townsfolk trying to save their loved ones, or loyalists or men who are just out for coin.

Maybe, or it just indicates that the search forced them to do so without help. As said. It's not unlikely.

It is however, pretty difficult to believe.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

JonCon said "the whole town as nest of traitors," but he lost and is a bitter old man now.

That has little to do with him remembering whether he received help or not. That's one way to dismiss a primary source.