Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[Kalbear]

Just now, Datepalm said:

I'm also wary of low-key depressive/mental health issues which I'm not sure a lot of alone time and a limited social life (it will probably consist of nodding politely to married colleagues' kid photos and politely being nodded to by 20-something grad students in turn) will be great for, however quaint the setting. The dating pool is also probably microscopic and I think I'm over that, after years of small, eccentric expat settings.

There's a gold mine of hot professor/young coed stuff right there, and you can supplement the income via onlyfans

[Datepalm]

3 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

There's a gold mine of hot professor/young coed stuff right there, and you can supplement the income via onlyfans

Definitely what I need is confusingly charged and sublimated relationships with clearly tortured yet never quite formally unethical power dynamics and boundaries wrt academic hierarchies.

[Kalbear]

22 minutes ago, Datepalm said:

Definitely what I need is confusingly charged and sublimated relationships with clearly tortured yet never quite formally unethical power dynamics and boundaries wrt academic hierarchies.

Well, duh

[Mlle. Zabzie]

If the small town is Ithaca, go with your gut and keep going further north, eh?

[Datepalm]

Huh. Advisor was very strongly pro-Small Town - more money for less work, leaving more scope for own research, which he thinks I should be focusing on. So I got back to Big City, who told me I'm in a great spot to negotiate and said they'll get back to me on a salary match and a 60/40 instead of 80/20 split on project/my stuff. I also got more info and the project budget, and it's actually smaller and probably more manageable than I expected. On the one hand, there's less money, but on the other, fewer people are actually directly getting paid and most of the budget is for research students. IE, I can tell these ones what to do. There is also a dedicated travel budget and expectation that I would do most of that, which is actually a plus as far as I'm concerned.

[Zorral]

In my experience the most pleasant place to live is a small town/city with a college.  But we weren't in our 20's and 30's, when we did it.  From other friends in the situation we have heard how lonesome such a situation can be for someone starting out, single and without a family in place. A person needs more than research to have a full life, even when likes ones colleagues, the school and the place.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

You are on the horns of a dilemma, but this is what an old partner of mine called a “high class problem”. I think you have two great choices.  Once you make up your mind, never look back because whatever you choose is right for you at that moment

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

You are on the horns of a dilemma, but this is what an old partner of mine called a “high class problem”. I think you have two great choices.  Once you make up your mind, never look back because whatever you choose is right for you at that moment

More evidence why I would have MZ run my fictional government. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

As others have mentioned, whatever you choose will be the best for you. If you do go to Big City University, I'd suggest looking around Big City (its never just 1 university, you know....I think when I lived in Boston there were ~10-15 decent schools around). You can make connections, go to seminars in neighboring schools, expand your network etc. etc. Its this sort of 'soft skill' BS that does seem to make a difference when it comes to academic hiring. It also gives you options for 'outs' if BCU isnt all its made out to be.

[Datepalm]

Thanks all! I got the counter-offer from Big City and they did the salary match and the 40/60 split, so I said yes. There's even a bit extra conference travel money tossed in, as they couldn't do relocation benefits, which I didn't even ask for, since I would maybe have been able to take advantage of 30% of that at most, and only by really coming up with the most expensive and probably inconvenient (to me!) way imaginable of moving two suitcases.

@IheartIheartTesla point about being in much more of an ecosystem than Small Town, however large the university itself definitely also played a part. I also had a nice candid chat with a friend-of-a-friend there who described it as "frozen hell if you're single" and "get a dog, or a robot dog if you're not a dog person" right as I got the Big City email (also, damn, this is nice networking - I may have an invitation to come do a talk there out of that chat. That should do it for this bit of curiosity for the small town Americana thing. Should have dragged it out - there were a few more interesting people on the list.)

 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

2 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Thanks all! I got the counter-offer from Big City and they did the salary match and the 40/60 split, so I said yes. There's even a bit extra conference travel money tossed in, as they couldn't do relocation benefits, which I didn't even ask for, since I would maybe have been able to take advantage of 30% of that at most, and only by really coming up with the most expensive and probably inconvenient (to me!) way imaginable of moving two suitcases.

@IheartIheartTesla point about being in much more of an ecosystem than Small Town, however large the university itself definitely also played a part. I also had a nice candid chat with a friend-of-a-friend there who described it as "frozen hell if you're single" and "get a dog, or a robot dog if you're not a dog person" right as I got the Big City email (also, damn, this is nice networking - I may have an invitation to come do a talk there out of that chat. That should do it for this bit of curiosity for the small town Americana thing. Should have dragged it out - there were a few more interesting people on the list.)

 

CONGRATULATIONS!

That sounds amazing, and wishing you the very best of luck.

I got a pretty decent size promotion yesterday.  It does not (currently) come with more money.  It does come with a lot more work, a lot more responsibility, and a lot more visibility.  I somewhat idiotically said yes.  But what else was I going to say - chairman called me directly....

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Not sure, but doesn't come name partner first, or has zabz already passed that step.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

28 minutes ago, Madame deVenoge said:

This is a huge, huge firm. In the accounting world, no one is re-naming PwC no matter how high up you get.

Didn't know she was working for those folks. I assumed she was working for some fancy Law firm specialized in tax law.

Edit: But Zabz waterhorse & cooper has a certain charm to it.

 

Give it a few scandals like the one in Australia, and it might become an option.

Edited June 15, 2023 by A Horse Named Stranger

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 minutes ago, Madame deVenoge said:

She’s not, but I thought I was pretty clear with my statement as being an analogy. I’m not even going to name a large law firm that she doesn’t work for, because process of elimination could possibly apply.

Yeah, but what do I know of fancy US tax law firms. Either way, tax law firms sounds like the proper sorta company waiting for a huge scandal. Or opportunity to get her name on the company during the next renaming process.

[Jaxom 1974]

Sooooo...what's the right way to politely decline someone seeking you out for an intriguing position, but it pays roughly 25k less than where you were two months ago, let alone need to be...but oh, looking at their website there is possibly a job you'd rather have instead, if you were going to take that kind of pay cut...?

(I can't/won't take that kind of pay cut, but don't want to come off wrong...this isn't that big of a city when all is said and done...)

[Iskaral Pust]

15 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

CONGRATULATIONS!

That sounds amazing, and wishing you the very best of luck.

I got a pretty decent size promotion yesterday.  It does not (currently) come with more money.  It does come with a lot more work, a lot more responsibility, and a lot more visibility.  I somewhat idiotically said yes.  But what else was I going to say - chairman called me directly....

Congratulations!  Always good to be recognized and in demand.  But I know the experience of promotions that expand your title and responsibilities but not your immediate finances (though they usually bring more long term comp over time, e.g. stock grants).

There is a stage in a good career when further comp increases don’t matter much so you can just focus on being in the role you enjoy the most, including the scope, challenge, colleagues, impact, etc.  You’ve just climbed to the top of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. 

[Iskaral Pust]

10 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sooooo...what's the right way to politely decline someone seeking you out for an intriguing position, but it pays roughly 25k less than where you were two months ago, let alone need to be...but oh, looking at their website there is possibly a job you'd rather have instead, if you were going to take that kind of pay cut...?

(I can't/won't take that kind of pay cut, but don't want to come off wrong...this isn't that big of a city when all is said and done...)

“I’d love to work for your firm and I see a strong mutual fit here.  But I have in mind a role closer in level to XX job that you have posted, and other firms agree.  Can we get agreement on the right level for me to contribute here?”

That’s a pretty easy topic to raise.  It would be tougher if they didn’t have (or have available) the level you want and you’re asking them to make a big exception to their structure to accommodate you.

They may resist the higher level and comp for you but then you’re just in a positive discussion about how much value you can bring and how to structure the comp for that.  You already know they think highly of you.

If they only like you at a too-low comp then they’re bargain hunting.  Set a realistic price for your value and tell them that “regretfully, I may have to pass if other firms can see a higher value role for me to contribute.”

I don’t think I’ve ever battled over comp but I have spoken up a few times to say I would have to be realistic if I can deliver more value in another firm’s business model.