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Tyrion Lannister: Good or Bad, or Something in Between?


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On 3/6/2022 at 11:10 PM, Canon Claude said:

How edgy.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 3:53 AM, EggBlue said:

Cersei? is that you?

 

On 3/7/2022 at 9:00 AM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

of course the heads of  himself, Jamie and Cersei could discuss this together from the atop the pikes they'd be skewered on after the Blackwater had Tyrion not been there to stop Stannis. Maybe not discuss so much as just get pecked by crows...

Tyrion is a literal rapist, self entitled useless wastrel that gets along his entire life just on his Lannister name, fails every opportunity to prove himself and lives simply to spite his father and ruin Westerlands 

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8 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

Tyrion is a literal rapist

Yeah. He takes after his father on that one.

 

10 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

fails every opportunity to prove himself and lives simply to spite his father and ruin Westerlands

He was a great Hand of the King, saving the Throne and his family from the Baratheons by first orchestrating the alliance with the Tyrells, when Twin was getting beaten by Edmure, and second by resisting Stannis's onslaught.

He also cemented the alliance with the Martells... Alliance his father spoiled due to his hubris by refusing to deliver Gregor's head as promised. 

He got Petyr to agree to control Lysa Arryn and further isolate the Starks.

He also was a pretty good Master of Coins.

 

I mean, he had a pretty good track record. There's no reason to believe he would have ruined the Westerlands.

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1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

 

 

Tyrion is a literal rapist, self entitled useless wastrel that gets along his entire life just on his Lannister name, fails every opportunity to prove himself and lives simply to spite his father and ruin Westerlands 

And his father is still worse. His sister too. 

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5 hours ago, frenin said:

Yeah. He takes after his father on that one.

 

He was a great Hand of the King, saving the Throne and his family from the Baratheons by first orchestrating the alliance with the Tyrells, when Twin was getting beaten by Edmure, and second by resisting Stannis's onslaught.

He also cemented the alliance with the Martells... Alliance his father spoiled due to his hubris by refusing to deliver Gregor's head as promised. 

He got Petyr to agree to control Lysa Arryn and further isolate the Starks.

He also was a pretty good Master of Coins.

 

I mean, he had a pretty good track record. There's no reason to believe he would have ruined the Westerlands.

 

He was a terrible hand of the king. He gave away Myrcella for no gain. There is no Dornish alliance, Dorne still plots with Targaryens, and it was Neutral either way. His entire plan for city defense hedged on one singular trick - chain and wildfyre, which failed. Without Tywin and Reach forces arriving Stannis would have taken the city. He spent his handship on petty power struggles with his sister and making enemies of all Lannister loyalists in the city. He brought a prostitute over, despite explicitly being told not to, then proceeded to threaten his own nephew with rape for her sake and sets stage for his own imprisonment and condemnation for murder of Joffrey with those actions. He thinks money can buy friends and lovers rather than see that people are with him for said money and is shocked when a whore doesn't love him and sacrifice her own life to save him from his own idiocy. Or that a mercenary doesn't throw it all away for his sake. He gave the Vale to littlefinger for no gain. Vale was and has remained neutral. 

 

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

And his father is still worse. His sister too. 

Hardly. His sister is worse off but his father is a great man

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11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Tyrion is a literal rapist, self entitled useless wastrel that gets along his entire life just on his Lannister name, fails every opportunity to prove himself and lives simply to spite his father and ruin Westerlands 

It's strange that you hate Tyrion for being a rapist but at the same time you completely ignore that Tywin had a young girl gang raped by an entire garrison of soldiers. What Tywin did is much worse than what Tyrion did and Tyrion at least felt some remorse.

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6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

 

He was a terrible hand of the king.

he did the best with what he had

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He gave away Myrcella for no gain. There is no Dornish alliance, Dorne still plots with Targaryens, and it was Neutral either way.

if it wasn't for their Targ Plot , the Dornish probably would have joined the war . Tyrion was no fortune teller , therefore , what he did was the best in that situation. 

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

His entire plan for city defense hedged on one singular trick - chain and wildfyre, which failed. Without Tywin and Reach forces arriving Stannis would have taken the city.

if not for his trick , Stannis would have taken the city before Tywin and Reach could save anyone. 

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He spent his handship on petty power struggles with his sister and making enemies of all Lannister loyalists in the city.

that wasn't just on Tyrion. those two should have joined forces but Cersei's paranoia came in the way and the only way for Tyrion to actually do anything was to fight her back. and if by Lannister loyalists you mean Pycelle and Janos...please!..

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He brought a prostitute over,

not his finest hour

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

despite explicitly being told not to,

the irony is Tywin did the same.. he just kept his whoring secret

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

then proceeded to threaten his own nephew with rape

granted , a terrible threat . but the truth is he was playing a part that he knew Cersei would buy.. he never meant to harm Tommen. that's the thing about Tyrion : he has accepted people referring to him as a monstrous Lannister imp and he plays the part .. although as time goes by he is embracing that persona entirely.

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

for her sake

shall we talk about how Chataya was an innocent human being that Cersei used for no absolute gain other than threatening Tyrion? and unlike Tyrion , she would have been true to her word

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

and sets stage for his own imprisonment and condemnation for murder of Joffrey with those actions.

his interactions with Joffrey were golden! that kid needed to be taught a lesson

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He thinks money can buy friends and lovers rather than see that people are with him for said money and is shocked when a whore doesn't love him and sacrifice her own life to save him from his own idiocy. Or that a mercenary doesn't throw it all away for his sake.

that's more upsetting than anything

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He gave the Vale to littlefinger for no gain. Vale was and has remained neutral. 

yeah , but his sister and father both would have done the same thing.. which is a problem with them all..they are too proud to see someone like LF might have his own agenda

6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Hardly. His sister is worse off but his father is a great man

oh boy! that misogynist monster? ! I have to make another post about that! 

Edited by EggBlue
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6 hours ago, Hrulj said:

 but his father is a great man

ok! which one is his greatest deed?

1) mascaraing Tarbeks and Reynes

2) forcing his father's mistress to a walk of shame(and make no mistake ser.. he only did that because she was a commoner who had risen above not because she was a corrupted woman)

3) having his son's 14 yr old wife gang raped

4) making his son watch his wife being raped 

5) neglecting his twins to the point that he was entirely clueless about their affair

6) thinking himself so high and above that ,for no good reason , just assumed crown prince of a dynasty that hardly married outside of their inner circle, would be his son-in-law.  and worse than that made his little daughter believe that , having her heart broken afterwards.

7) accusing his dead wife of being unfaithful for the sole reason of not getting a pretty son , before her corpse was cold.

8) "honoring" his wife's memory by offending her friend

9) ordering two brutes to murder children

10 ) ordering a mad man to rape and kill a woman because Great Tywin was offended by her marriage

11) conspiring for a slaughter of nobles and innocent soldiers in a wedding

12) probably Duskendale (disputed) 

 

Edited by EggBlue
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On 3/6/2022 at 1:04 AM, SeanF said:

His attitudes towards women are primitive in the extreme.

Like when he recognized Chella as a top liutenenant or respected the Widows guidance in Volantis and Catelyn's  shrewdness? Or perhaps when the entire world spews the same misogynistic bullshit about their respective queens Cersei and Dany, Tyrion not once thinks of their gender as a weakness.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 12:30 PM, EggBlue said:

I'd like to mention that his train of thoughts as he was manipulating Aegon was interesting, considering he had not yet decided what his own agenda is (he hadn't even if he wants to live yet!)  and was merely playing with him: " There, that’s made him good and angry

Definitely interesting. So for the second part, I don't think he can help himself lol, Aegon shares similarities with Joff and Tyrion naturally makes himself at home. I don't think he missed Joff, but maybe he misses their interactions?

So we don't know his agenda just his end games (dead, or uh raped Cersei/ Rock) but yea Tyrion sends Aegon to Westeros without Dany on purpose and probably with Ill intent. My guess is something along the lines of him wanting to crown Myrcella 

Quote

"My niece Myrcella is in Dorne, as it happens. And I have half a mind to make her a queen."

Illyrio smiled as his serving men spooned out bowls of black cherries in sweet cream for them both. "What has this poor child done to you that you would wish her dead?"

"Even a kinslayer is not required to slay all his kin," said Tyrion, wounded. "Queen her, I said. Not kill her."

The cheesemonger spooned up cherries. "In Volantis they use a coin with a crown on one face and a death's-head on the other. Yet it is the same coin. To queen her is to kill her. Dorne might rise for Myrcella, but Dorne alone is not enough. If you are as clever as our friend insists, you know this."

Tyrion looked at the fat man with new interest. He is right on both counts.

Using your child niece as bait is unbelievably horrendous and while Tyrion feels guilt about it it's probable that Aegon is, well not his niece, and ok to fuck with. The fact that YGriff acts like his nephew makes the decision a little easier.

And then the Imp risked his life for YGriff. Selfless? Or was he risking his life for his scheme? I like to think he was just saving a life like he constantly does in adwd

Quote

Zahrina,” the man said. “Cheap fighters, hers. Meat for heroes. Your friend dead soon.”

He was no friend to me. Yet Tyrion Lannister found himself turning to Nurse and saying, “You cannot let her have him.”

Nurse squinted at him. “What is this noise you make?”

Tyrion pointed. “That one is part of our show. The bear and the maiden fair. Jorah is the bear, Penny is the maiden, I am the brave knight who rescues her. I dance about and hit him in the balls. Very funny.”

The overseer squinted at the auction block. “Him?” The bidding for Jorah Mormont had reached two hundred silvers.

“And one,” said the crone in the violet tokar.

“Your bear. I see.” Nurse went scuttling off through the crowd, bent over the huge yellow Yunkishman in his litter, whispered in his ear. His master nodded, chins wobbling, then raised his fan.

“Three hundred,” he called out in a wheezy voice. The crone sniffed and turned away.

“Why did you do that?” Penny asked, in the Common Tongue.

A fair question, thought Tyrion. Why did I?

Why did he? Was this a long term scheme like sending Aegon to Westeros or was it simply saving a life for the sake of it? 

And here I thought a Lannister paid his debts. Jorah kidnapped him, beat him, relished in executing him and tied Tyrion up worse then a 3 year old with a marionette, yet the Imp saves him. 

Because he's a natural savior and hero in this story

 

 

On 3/7/2022 at 1:34 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Certainly a greyscaled one.

:D

Yo, very clever ser. Nice work

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16 hours ago, Hrulj said:

 

 

 fails every opportunity to prove himself

Well, not at the Blackwater.

 

You can say what you like about him. Doesn't change the fact that he saved Joffrey's reign and his family with it. What have you got some sort of personal grudge? Did a character in a book insult you in your daydreams or something and now you've got to have satisfaction? Get over it.

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11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He gave away Myrcella for no gain

He gave Myrcella away for the guarantee of the Martells not joining either the Starks or the Baratheon brothers. Tywin would use a similar tactic later too.

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

There is no Dornish alliance, Dorne still plots with Targaryens

Tyrion can only work with the info he has. Tywin doesn't know about the Targs, yet he still wants the Martells on his good side.

 

Quote

"Heal him," Lord Tywin said again, vexed. "You are aware that Lord Varys has sent fishermen into the waters around Dragonstone. They report that only a token force remains to defend the island. The Lyseni are gone from the bay, and the great part of Lord Stannis's strength with them."
"Well and good," announced Pycelle. "Let Stannis rot in Lys, I say. We are well rid of the man and his ambitions."
"Did you turn into an utter fool when Tyrion shaved your beard? This is Stannis Baratheon. The man will fight to the bitter end and then some. If he is gone, it can only mean he intends to resume the war. Most likely he will land at Storm's End and try and rouse the storm lords. If so, he's finished. But a bolder man might roll the dice for Dorne. If he should win Sunspear to his cause, he might prolong this war for years. So we will not offend the Martells any further, for any reason. The Dornishmen are free to go, and you will heal Ser Gregor."

And the Martells wouldn't support Stannis either!!

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

and it was Neutral either way.

They didn't  nor could know that. Their only info was that th Martells had a lot of bad blood and now the Lannisters had enemies on all sides and desperately needed an ally not yet another enemy.

Tyrion doesn't read the books.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

. His entire plan for city defense hedged on one singular trick - chain and wildfyre, which failed.

Ofc it failed. Tyrion was massively outnumbered. He couldn't hold the city. He resisted enough for Tywin to arrive, had it not been because of Tyrion, Tywin would have found Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne.

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Without Tywin and Reach forces arriving Stannis would have taken the city.

So what you're saying is that without the alliance Tyrion forged... Stannis would have taken the city? Well yeah.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He spent his handship on petty power struggles with his sister and making enemies of all Lannister loyalists in the city

He spent his Handship prepping the city for Stannis, cleaning up the filth like Slynt and replacing them with loyal men and fending off his sister's meddlings.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He brought a prostitute over, despite explicitly being told not to

Which isn't really a problem, it's just stupid.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

then proceeded to threaten his own nephew with rape for her sake

Well, that's just dumb indeed.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

and sets stage for his own imprisonment and condemnation for murder of Joffrey with those actions.

He cannot see the future.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He thinks money can buy friends and lovers rather than see that people are with him for said money and is shocked when a whore doesn't love him and sacrifice her own life to save him from his own idiocy.

So what has that to do with his Handship?

 

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He gave the Vale to littlefinger for no gain.

Tywin agreed to it to, perhaps there was a gain. The Vale acknowledged Joffrey/Tommen as its liege and starting paying taxes back.

 

11 hours ago, Hrulj said:

 Vale was and has remained neutral. 

Again, they do not read the books. The Vale did not recognize the Lannisters, the Bloody Gates are impenetrable so militarily conquest is off the question, Lysa is kin with the Starks and at any given moment she might change her mood and join them in the fight, making the Starks's rebellion a nearly indefinite thing.

Besides the obvious fact that a foolproof way to know your power over a territory is seeing whether said territory is paying taxes or not. The Vale obviously wasn't and there wasn't a thing the Lannisters could do to force Lysa's hand. Tyrion ended the problem.

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12 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

It's strange that you hate Tyrion for being a rapist but at the same time you completely ignore that Tywin had a young girl gang raped by an entire garrison of soldiers. What Tywin did is much worse than what Tyrion did and Tyrion at least felt some remorse.

Tywin didn't rape her. He paid her to be a prostitute. We never hear of her refusing money. Or Tyrion saying she fought back and resisted. 

11 hours ago, EggBlue said:

he did the best with what he had

if it wasn't for their Targ Plot , the Dornish probably would have joined the war . Tyrion was no fortune teller , therefore , what he did was the best in that situation. 

if not for his trick , Stannis would have taken the city before Tywin and Reach could save anyone. 

that wasn't just on Tyrion. those two should have joined forces but Cersei's paranoia came in the way and the only way for Tyrion to actually do anything was to fight her back. and if by Lannister loyalists you mean Pycelle and Janos...please!..

not his finest hour

the irony is Tywin did the same.. he just kept his whoring secret

granted , a terrible threat . but the truth is he was playing a part that he knew Cersei would buy.. he never meant to harm Tommen. that's the thing about Tyrion : he has accepted people referring to him as a monstrous Lannister imp and he plays the part .. although as time goes by he is embracing that persona entirely.

shall we talk about how Chataya was an innocent human being that Cersei used for no absolute gain other than threatening Tyrion? and unlike Tyrion , she would have been true to her word

his interactions with Joffrey were golden! that kid needed to be taught a lesson

that's more upsetting than anything

yeah , but his sister and father both would have done the same thing.. which is a problem with them all..they are too proud to see someone like LF might have his own agenda

oh boy! that misogynist monster? ! I have to make another post about that! 

It brought about absolutely no benefit. Dornish didn't fight for them before or after Myrcella was sent. Having her as a hostage only encouraged them to be further disloyal. 

The trick merely killed people. It didn't delay anything. City was set to fall all the same without Tywin and Mace coming along to pull Tyrion out of the fire.

Its explicitly on Tyrion. Head - Pikes - Walls. Tyrion knew Littlefinger set him up for Bran's murder attempt and got the war started. Does nothing. He comes with Tywin's full authority - wastes it. His sister is irrelevant and powerless as long as he has backing of his father. He does nothing with it. 

And? Fucking whores in secret isn't something Tywin opposed from Tyrion. Tyrion made a reputation for himself troughout the seven kingdoms as lecherous imp. That's the problem. The bringing whore over is a problem because Tywin already knows. 

Yeah he played it great. Then cried when people came forward acusing him of murder. Guess what, I tell someone I'll kill them, they wind up dead - I'm the prime suspect. Tywin never makes threats. He should've ignored cersei. Especially since the entire threat of Cersei was precipitated on Tyrion trying to protect Shae from her. 

Should I care about Chataya? Should hand of the king and future lord of Westerlands care about a prostitute?

What lesson did he learn from Tyrion save to inflict violence and threats of it on those that displease you?

His father would've had a plan that goes with it. Tyrion just sends people over and awards them Paramouncies like candy. 

 

10 hours ago, EggBlue said:

ok! which one is his greatest deed?

1) mascaraing Tarbeks and Reynes

2) forcing his father's mistress to a walk of shame(and make no mistake ser.. he only did that because she was a commoner who had risen above not because she was a corrupted woman)

3) having his son's 14 yr old wife gang raped

4) making his son watch his wife being raped 

5) neglecting his twins to the point that he was entirely clueless about their affair

6) thinking himself so high and above that ,for no good reason , just assumed crown prince of a dynasty that hardly married outside of their inner circle, would be his son-in-law.  and worse than that made his little daughter believe that , having her heart broken afterwards.

7) accusing his dead wife of being unfaithful for the sole reason of not getting a pretty son , before her corpse was cold.

8) "honoring" his wife's memory by offending her friend

9) ordering two brutes to murder children

10 ) ordering a mad man to rape and kill a woman because Great Tywin was offended by her marriage

11) conspiring for a slaughter of nobles and innocent soldiers in a wedding

12) probably Duskendale (disputed) 

 

1. Yes. That was a great deed that cemented the rule of his house and cowed his vassals into respecting them after decades of ineptitude and weakness. 

2. Yes. She was a mistress who donned a dead ladies jewelry and ordered people about. She got what was comming to her and should've counter herself lucky he didn't murder her outright. 

3. Wife and rape are questionable. Jaime may as well have lied to make Tyrion feel better. Tyrion never mentions any resistance. 

4. Tyrion should've known his place. 

5. Who sees his own kids having a good relationship and thinks to himself - yep, they're fucking for sure. 

6. Awww poor Cersei's little heart. Tywin aimed high. His only mistake was trying to tie himself to the Dragons out of some mistaken loyalty to a former friend gone mad. 

7. Heavily implied mad king forced himself on her. 

8. What friend?

9. He did what was best. Everyone is a kid once. Viserys and Daenarys survived and they didn't settle down on a homestead finding true love and growing flowers. They prepared to return and in the end did their best to raise an army to attack. Personally I'd have castrated Aegon and had Rhaenys married to the royal heir but killing them was a decent choice as well. 

10. Sucks to be her. That woman's brother was offended by a fart, murdered mean by poison in honor duels after cuckolding them and being caught doing it. 

11. Should've kept his word Rob. Sucks how Frey's are prickly. Red Wedding was a stroke of genius. Ended war, Frey's are pissed upon even more. All with no further Lannister dead. 

12. Do I care?

6 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Well, not at the Blackwater.

 

You can say what you like about him. Doesn't change the fact that he saved Joffrey's reign and his family with it. What have you got some sort of personal grudge? Did a character in a book insult you in your daydreams or something and now you've got to have satisfaction? Get over it.

 

Blackwater explicitly is his worst moment. It failed.

6 hours ago, frenin said:

He gave Myrcella away for the guarantee of the Martells not joining either the Starks or the Baratheon brothers. Tywin would use a similar tactic later too.

 

Tyrion can only work with the info he has. Tywin doesn't know about the Targs, yet he still wants the Martells on his good side.

 

And the Martells wouldn't support Stannis either!!

 

 

They didn't  nor could know that. Their only info was that th Martells had a lot of bad blood and now the Lannisters had enemies on all sides and desperately needed an ally not yet another enemy.

Tyrion doesn't read the books.

 

 

Ofc it failed. Tyrion was massively outnumbered. He couldn't hold the city. He resisted enough for Tywin to arrive, had it not been because of Tyrion, Tywin would have found Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne.

 

So what you're saying is that without the alliance Tyrion forged... Stannis would have taken the city? Well yeah.

 

 

He spent his Handship prepping the city for Stannis, cleaning up the filth like Slynt and replacing them with loyal men and fending off his sister's meddlings.

 

 

Which isn't really a problem, it's just stupid.

 

 

Well, that's just dumb indeed.

 

 

He cannot see the future.

 

 

So what has that to do with his Handship?

 

 

Tywin agreed to it to, perhaps there was a gain. The Vale acknowledged Joffrey/Tommen as its liege and starting paying taxes back.

 

Again, they do not read the books. The Vale did not recognize the Lannisters, the Bloody Gates are impenetrable so militarily conquest is off the question, Lysa is kin with the Starks and at any given moment she might change her mood and join them in the fight, making the Starks's rebellion a nearly indefinite thing.

Besides the obvious fact that a foolproof way to know your power over a territory is seeing whether said territory is paying taxes or not. The Vale obviously wasn't and there wasn't a thing the Lannisters could do to force Lysa's hand. Tyrion ended the problem.

Martells joining Starks or Baratheons? Starks are far, Baratheons blamed for Elia all the same. One of which is dead at that point and another is a fire obsessed lunatic. She could've gotten the Vale trough Littlefinger pressure and further planning. Instead she's disfigured in Dorne. 

What did Dornish "Alliance" bring from that point to the last books? 

 

And Stannis would be besieged by the biggest army in the land, and subsequently extinguished. Instead he kept the king in the city to be captured. 

She didn't at the start she wouldn't at the end when Starks are being beaten at every corner. 

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57 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

He paid her to be a prostitute

After she was gang raped bruh...

 

57 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

It brought about absolutely no benefit. Dornish didn't fight for them before or after Myrcella was sent. Having her as a hostage only encouraged them to be further disloyal. 

 

It brought a huge benefit according to everyone. Dorne announced its loyalty to the Throne and that they wouldn't be fighting the Lannisters.

 

58 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

Tyrion knew Littlefinger set him up for Bran's murder attempt and got the war started. Does nothing.

What do you want him to do? Tyrion himself states that he needs Petyr and the Lannisters desperately needed him.

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

Martells joining Starks or Baratheons? Starks are far, Baratheons blamed for Elia all the same. One of which is dead at that point and another is a fire obsessed lunatic.

The Starks are far but the Martells can simply attack their enemies and it's not like Renly is going to prevent an army attacking the Lannisters. The Martells blamed Robert for Elia, not Stannis or Renly and by the time the alliance was announced the Baratheon bros were neither.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

She could've gotten the Vale trough

She couldn't. Lysa had no interest in her and she was unlikely to attack the Starks regardless. Tyrion already had Petyr to tame Lysa, he needed Dorne.

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

Instead she's disfigured in Dorne. 

Assuming ofc that she would end up better in Dorne with Petyr and Lysa.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

What did Dornish "Alliance" bring from that point to the last books? 

Ask Tywin.

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

And Stannis would be besieged by the biggest army in the land, and subsequently extinguished. Instead he kept the king in the city to be captured. 

Stannis would be King and with him holding the city, the loyalty of the Tyrells can become pretty shaky, not to mention that the Starks could simply attack them from behind anyway.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

She didn't at the start she wouldn't at the end when Starks are being beaten at every corner. 

You don't know that, none of the characters know that. It is Tywin who in ASOS pressures Petyr to go, wonder why he doesn't see it as an stupid idea. Fact is, if there is a chance the Vale might support Robb, making the rebellion impossible to beat by Tywin, the things is to squash those chances.

Tywin literally capitalize on every big decision of Tyrion lol.

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When I first read the books (after season 2 of the show) I was very sympathetic to him because I had the much more likeable Peter Dinklage version in my head.

But on re-reads I've become more aware of how reprehensible at times. Like in book 5 where he says he wants to "rape and kill" his sister, and he bangs a prostitute who is described as being barely aware of what's going on.

He's clearly meant to be Richard III, but GRRM said in an interview that he liked Richard III, so who knows where Tyrion is going to end up. 

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12 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Tywin didn't rape her. He paid her to be a prostitute. We never hear of her refusing money. Or Tyrion saying she fought back and resisted. 

I'm gonna stop you right there.. if you don't see that as problematic and if the only version of rape in your mind is a woman kicking and screaming whilst the rapist has his way with her , then we don't really have to discuss anything! we have very different views

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Somewhere in between. He is very smart and witty. He was a good Hand that saved KL from being sacked by Stannis. At the same time he pities himself about being a dwarf (on the verge of having a victim complex sometimes) while at the same time being hypocritically shallow and vain towards women.  

But ever since his arrest and Tywin's death, he is becoming darker and darker- it's like a downwards spiral that fuels his resentment, thirst for revenge or even apathy. He (partly) mirrors Cersei in that way.  

So he is a very dark shade of gray for me. 

Edited by Raven Princling
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18 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Tywin didn't rape her. He paid her to be a prostitute. We never hear of her refusing money. Or Tyrion saying she fought back and resisted. 

It brought about absolutely no benefit. Dornish didn't fight for them before or after Myrcella was sent. Having her as a hostage only encouraged them to be further disloyal. 

The trick merely killed people. It didn't delay anything. City was set to fall all the same without Tywin and Mace coming along to pull Tyrion out of the fire.

Its explicitly on Tyrion. Head - Pikes - Walls. Tyrion knew Littlefinger set him up for Bran's murder attempt and got the war started. Does nothing. He comes with Tywin's full authority - wastes it. His sister is irrelevant and powerless as long as he has backing of his father. He does nothing with it. 

And? Fucking whores in secret isn't something Tywin opposed from Tyrion. Tyrion made a reputation for himself troughout the seven kingdoms as lecherous imp. That's the problem. The bringing whore over is a problem because Tywin already knows. 

Yeah he played it great. Then cried when people came forward acusing him of murder. Guess what, I tell someone I'll kill them, they wind up dead - I'm the prime suspect. Tywin never makes threats. He should've ignored cersei. Especially since the entire threat of Cersei was precipitated on Tyrion trying to protect Shae from her. 

Should I care about Chataya? Should hand of the king and future lord of Westerlands care about a prostitute?

What lesson did he learn from Tyrion save to inflict violence and threats of it on those that displease you?

His father would've had a plan that goes with it. Tyrion just sends people over and awards them Paramouncies like candy. 

 

1. Yes. That was a great deed that cemented the rule of his house and cowed his vassals into respecting them after decades of ineptitude and weakness. 

2. Yes. She was a mistress who donned a dead ladies jewelry and ordered people about. She got what was comming to her and should've counter herself lucky he didn't murder her outright. 

3. Wife and rape are questionable. Jaime may as well have lied to make Tyrion feel better. Tyrion never mentions any resistance. 

4. Tyrion should've known his place. 

5. Who sees his own kids having a good relationship and thinks to himself - yep, they're fucking for sure. 

6. Awww poor Cersei's little heart. Tywin aimed high. His only mistake was trying to tie himself to the Dragons out of some mistaken loyalty to a former friend gone mad. 

7. Heavily implied mad king forced himself on her. 

8. What friend?

9. He did what was best. Everyone is a kid once. Viserys and Daenarys survived and they didn't settle down on a homestead finding true love and growing flowers. They prepared to return and in the end did their best to raise an army to attack. Personally I'd have castrated Aegon and had Rhaenys married to the royal heir but killing them was a decent choice as well. 

10. Sucks to be her. That woman's brother was offended by a fart, murdered mean by poison in honor duels after cuckolding them and being caught doing it. 

11. Should've kept his word Rob. Sucks how Frey's are prickly. Red Wedding was a stroke of genius. Ended war, Frey's are pissed upon even more. All with no further Lannister dead. 

12. Do I care?

 

Blackwater explicitly is his worst moment. It failed.

Martells joining Starks or Baratheons? Starks are far, Baratheons blamed for Elia all the same. One of which is dead at that point and another is a fire obsessed lunatic. She could've gotten the Vale trough Littlefinger pressure and further planning. Instead she's disfigured in Dorne. 

What did Dornish "Alliance" bring from that point to the last books? 

 

And Stannis would be besieged by the biggest army in the land, and subsequently extinguished. Instead he kept the king in the city to be captured. 

She didn't at the start she wouldn't at the end when Starks are being beaten at every corner. 

Who’s an edgy boy! You are! Yes you are! What an edgy boy you are!!!!

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7 hours ago, Darryk said:

He's clearly meant to be Richard III, but GRRM said in an interview that he liked Richard III, so who knows where Tyrion is going to end up. 

Mayhaps Martin liked how capable Richard was for politics and ruling.

Richard is what I call the overall package for a king. His good at everything one needs to be a great king. Politics, court intrigue, and war. Mayhaps this is how Martin wants to shape Tyrion into. All the bad characteristics of the character are just a way to make them flawed.

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