Inkdaub Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Lists are lists and I try to enjoy them despite the flaws I know will be there. I agree that the whole 'of all time' thing strikes me odd. I do tend to consider these lists to be in no real order, whatever the intent of the writer, so where a book falls usually doesn't bother me. In theory, anyway. The biggest issue I have with selections for this list is no Malazan. I also have to admit that when I come across the words, 'The first book in The Lord of the Rings trilogy...', a downgrade is automatic. I understand people do that and I understand why but it still drives me batty. Still, this list has some good stuff on it. The one that caught my eye right off is Ajvaz' The Other City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 The Fifth Season is pretty good, maybe great, but best fantasy ever written. Yeah, ok. No Glenn Cook on this, to add to the other stuff left out that people above already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerol Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, Esquire turns to science fiction. Or should this be a separate thread? https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g39358054/best-sci-fi-books/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Jerol said: Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, Esquire turns to science fiction. Or should this be a separate thread? https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g39358054/best-sci-fi-books/ No need for a separate thread...I'll update the title of this one... That list is...somewhat less infected with recency bias...? I mean, they got number one right...and so many of the ones you'd expect to be on there, are there...but some are still missing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Jerol said: Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, Esquire turns to science fiction. Or should this be a separate thread? https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g39358054/best-sci-fi-books/ Haven't even looked at most of this list yet and jumped to the end to see their #1 -- but I'm already a bit miffed by them having Octavia E. Butler's Kindred on this list at #5. Not because it isn't a fantastic book -- I personally think everyone should read Kindred -- but because Butler herself was clear that this was her one novel that was NOT science fiction but was fantasy. There is no scientfic or pseudo-scientific explanation of the time travel in the novel at all, and there is nothing besides the time travel that could fit into the "science fiction" label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 51 minutes ago, Ormond said: Haven't even looked at most of this list yet and jumped to the end to see their #1 -- but I'm already a bit miffed by them having Octavia E. Butler's Kindred on this list at #5. Not because it isn't a fantastic book -- I personally think everyone should read Kindred -- but because Butler herself was clear that this was her one novel that was NOT science fiction but was fantasy. There is no scientfic or pseudo-scientific explanation of the time travel in the novel at all, and there is nothing besides the time travel that could fit into the "science fiction" label. If it helps, Kindred was one of at least two books that made each list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Maybe it's just because I'm a little less invested in SF, overall, than in fantasy, but despite (hell, perhaps because of) less recency bias this feels less like a list by someone who really really loves the genre root and stem than the fantasy one. Perhaps because SF has a longer list of really obvious seminal classics that couldn't reasonably be excluded, I dunno, but spacey stuff, both space opera and more nerdily technical hard SF stuff is distinctly under-represented. I wouldn't expect all or even most of them for the same reason I understand why not all my epic/heroic fantasy faves were on the other one, but not a single one of Iain M Banks, Steven Baxter, Alastair Reynolds, Brian Aldiss, Vernor Vinge, Ian McDonald, John Scalzi, Greg Bear, Poul Anderson, Joe Haldeman or more recently Ann Leckie, Arkady Martine, Yoon Ha Lee or James SA Corey? Are you serious? It seems to be similarly leery of cyberpunk-related forms or transhumanism - it includes a couple seemingly cyberpunky more modern books, sure (as well as claiming Rosewater is cyberpunk which it isn't), but it tucks the two foundational texts in at the bottom of the list, ignores a critical precursor like The Stars My Destination entirely, and doesn't place significant authors like Richard Morgan (I know he's objectionable now, but come on) or I guess Ian McDonald again, others like that? Dunno, less sure about this one, I don't read that subgenre hugely myself, but it does seem light on it. Basically just seems to want to avoid significant chunks of the genre, and seems to lean probably too heavily to books that either have A Significant Message, or have been adapted to screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Maybe it's just because I'm a little less invested in SF, overall, than in fantasy, but despite (hell, perhaps because of) less recency bias this feels less like a list by someone who really really loves the genre root and stem than the fantasy one. Perhaps because SF has a longer list of really obvious seminal classics that couldn't reasonably be excluded, I dunno, but spacey stuff, both space opera and more nerdily technical hard SF stuff is distinctly under-represented. I wouldn't expect all or even most of them for the same reason I understand why not all my epic/heroic fantasy faves were on the other one, but not a single one of Iain M Banks, Steven Baxter, Alastair Reynolds, Brian Aldiss, Vernor Vinge, Ian McDonald, John Scalzi, Greg Bear, Poul Anderson, Joe Haldeman or more recently Ann Leckie, Arkady Martine, Yoon Ha Lee or James SA Corey? Are you serious? It seems to be similarly leery of cyberpunk-related forms or transhumanism - it includes a couple seemingly cyberpunky more modern books, sure (as well as claiming Rosewater is cyberpunk which it isn't), but it tucks the two foundational texts in at the bottom of the list, ignores a critical precursor like The Stars My Destination entirely, and doesn't place significant authors like Richard Morgan (I know he's objectionable now, but come on) or I guess Ian McDonald again, others like that? Dunno, less sure about this one, I don't read that subgenre hugely myself, but it does seem light on it. Basically just seems to want to avoid significant chunks of the genre, and seems to lean probably too heavily to books that either have A Significant Message, or have been adapted to screen. Having now looked at the entire list, I would agree with the above. The list does seem to ignore some of the more recent great examples of fiction set on starships or on alien worlds, and seems to want to include a lot of examples of very interesting novels by famous authors who mostly wrote (or write) books in other genres, such as Doris Lessing, P. D. James, Margaret Atwood, Louise Erdrich, Anthony Burgess, and Carl Sagan. 1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said: If it helps, Kindred was one of at least two books that made each list... Thanks for pointing that out. I still would greatly have preferred one of Butler's more truly science fiction titles such as Wild Seed to have been included. --I guess I should be happy that I've actually read 13 out of the 50 on their science fiction list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Another solid list, though I agree that there were a lot of deserving authors left off the SF list. In addition to who PG mentioned, where tf is Gene Wolfe? And some straight up weak stuff on there like The Stand. Some of the book choices were surprising- love The City and The City but I don't think it's anywhere near as good as Embassytown. I don't know why they bothered to have a couple books make both lists, seems like a waste of a spot, and why are those the books that cross genres more easily? Seems like Dune could be fantasy as well as Sci-fi just as easily as The Fifth Season could. Also, I never would have though of Station 11 as Sci-fi. Overall though these are some quality lists, as far that sort of thing goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teng Ai Hui Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Placing Hitchhiker's Guide on the list at #42 is a little too obvious, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 6 hours ago, Teng Ai Hui said: Placing Hitchhiker's Guide on the list at #42 is a little too obvious, isn't it? Good though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerol Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 For not including Iain M Banks, the science fiction list should be nuked from orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jerol said: For not including Iain M Banks, the science fiction list should be nuked from orbit. The fantasy list didn't include Pratchett and the SF list didn't include Banks, thus neatly excluding the best writer of both genres. At least they were even-handed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Any other lists by major publications folks feel are better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damonish Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 On 3/14/2022 at 5:20 AM, Ormond said: A rather obscure children's book which I would definitely put in my top ten fantasy list is An Edge of the Forest by Agnes Smith. I guess it's borderline between "chapter book" and "young adult" as it was originally marketed for ages 11-14. I think it is by far the best "animal fantasy" book I read as a child. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2082201.An_Edge_of_the_Forest I agree Ormond. This is virtually unknown, but a very, very special little book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 On 10/26/2022 at 9:17 PM, Damonish said: I agree Ormond. This is virtually unknown, but a very, very special little book. I loved that book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3CityApache Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Can anyone seriously think Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep is the best book Philip K. Dick wrote? It's not even in his top five for me I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 11:26 PM, sperry said: Any other lists by major publications folks feel are better? On 4/7/2022 at 11:34 PM, Crazy Old Guy said: I would say that I've been looking for a while. And they kinda repeat themselves. There was a list created on this very forum many years ago: The combined list of everybody is on page 11. Obviously it's not gonna have anything after 2010. Pretty good list though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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