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Covid 47: Waving Invisibly


Zorral
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14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

So.. that’s a no then.

That’s what I thought. The usual fear mongering and lies.

Keep toddling.  Afraid to look, you, ya.  :whip: :rofl:

Edited by Zorral
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42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The article SAYS that nobody knows whether it is more deadly though it is more infectious. We do know that reinfection after reinfection is very bad for health.

That's why Kal criticised the headline.  It was click bait from the Washington Post.  I'd hope for better.

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22 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Keep toddling.  Afraid to look, you, ya.  :whip: :rofl:

I mean this is a serious point, I'd rather you weren't peddling disinformation about Covid on this channel and making firm statements about things on which you have no supporting evidence. 

I could post any number of articles that show that the result of repeat reinfections is that you are much more likely to not get severe symptoms with your next infection. That is not the the 'very bad for your health' claim you are making, so where are you getting this theory?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/welcome-to-the-great-reinfection

 

Quote

At the end of the day, the good news is, you’re not likely to get a severe case on your next tussle with the virus—in another study from Abu-Raddad, a reinfection was found to result in a 90 percent lower chance of ending up in the hospital or dying than your first infection.



The only thing I've seen is that there must be a 'suspicion' that the more infections you get, the more chance one of them leads to Long Covid, but even that seems to be conjecture at this point, especially with the many open questions about Long Covid itself, it being a nebulous terms for very many, not very well understood conditions. 


Also, I've literally just come back from a work drinks, where one guy has now had Covid 4 times!! We all question what the hell he is doing to catch it that many times. But either way, he has no long last ill effects from it, each infection was either the same or less bad than the previous one.  It's also not surprising as it states in that article, the UK has had almost 1 million reinfections, and if it was leading to real problems we'd be seeing it.

Edited by Heartofice
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I have not had symptoms or a positive Covid test yet either, despite the majority of my nonmasking workmates having at some point became positive.

The only times I've tested was before trips to visit parents though so who knows?

We seem to have been lucky within the immediate family so far with no cases that we've known of. All the Democrats in the family have been vaxxed and maskers, none of Republican of course.

Kudos to parents who kept their residence off limits to the non vaxxed, non maskers. My dad was quite stern about not letting any of them near mom lol.

We are not out of this yet, we've all been laxxing more on the masking lately, I'm probably going to start masking again in the fall if I see evidence of spikes in the area, also stand ready for anymore approved boosters of course.

I spend majority of free time out of doors during summers.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit
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NYC Pushes Indoor Mask Advisory for All as ‘Worst' Omicron Strain Fuels 6th Wave
The BA.5 subvariant appears to escape immunity and transmit more easily, leading some to call it the "worst version" of omicron yet -- and a recent study on severe outcome risk from reinfection raises fresh alarm bell

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-covid-guidelines-isolation-nyc-risk-infection-omicron-variant-ba5/3766416/

Must I say, NOTE THE SCARE QUOTES around "Worst" ???????

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https://slate.com/technology/2022/07/covid-reinfection-omicron-wave-forever-plague.html

Here -- see link to article above I posted -- neither wastewater nor testing, nor anything else is accurate because ???? the local government sites have even stopped posting the data, even shut down all together thanks to fool of a mayor.  But they gave up today and confessed that the entire shebang is at HIGH RISK of infection.  They are discussing bringing back 'mask advisory for public indoor spaces' when They insisted on dropping them just this goddamn week.

I spent the whole afternoon on the subway and inside a museum.  I hadn't seen this latest -- which came out while I was snapping photos and ooing and ahing  over the glories of the Afrofuturism exhibit.. Thank goodness I am continuing to mask, no matter where we are. 

Quote

 

The empirical data coming in right now supports these basic immunological principles. If a previous omicron infection conferred little or no immunity against future omicron infections, then you’d expect that each subvariant’s surge would reach similar or even greater heights—because each subvariant is increasingly more contagious—than the original early 2022 omicron peak. But testing data from New York shows that the BA.2 wave fell far short of the original omicron wave—both in terms of total infections and reinfections. The same patterns held in Portugal, France, and Italy. The U.K. testing data followed a similar pattern (though testing data with randomized sampling, which better controls for testing rates, suggests the BA.2 peak was higher, a separate analysis from the U.K. Health Security Agency suggests reinfections were relatively rare, and not driving the spike). Testing in South Africa, where the BA.4/BA.5 surge has already peaked, showed much lower levels of infections. This is consistent with a population fortified by prior immunity.

You could argue that testing data no longer reflects the true infection rate, as more people are testing from home or just not testing at all. This is where wastewater surveillance comes in, which doesn’t suffer from the vagaries of testing behavior. [Here -- see link to article above I posted -- neither wastewater nor testing, nor anything else is accurate because ???? the local government sites have even stopped posting the data, even shut down all together thanks to fool of a mayor.] That data from the U.S. and Europe paints a similar picture. Yes, there are regional variations, but the omicron subvariant waves tend to fall short of the peak of the original omicron wave. So: While it’s definitely possible to get infected with omicron twice, not everyone does. And there’s no evidence that you can get immediately reinfected with the exact same strain (although that’s a surprisingly difficult question to answer, scientifically). It also seems unlikely that you’d get BA.4, then BA.5 or vice versa, given that they have similar mutations. Back-to-back reinfections are instances of really unlucky timing as various variants surge. You may have heard anecdotes about them, because with millions of cases, they will happen—a small percentage of a large number is still a large number, and stories about uncommon events tend to travel around quickly.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

The article SAYS that nobody knows whether it is more deadly though it is more infectious. We do know that reinfection after reinfection is very bad for health.

 

 

The article also says that it's the worst, and that's simply not an accurate statement by any measurable goals. 

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So show us why, rather than yelling. :read:

I am not married to any of it, exactly, but I sure do know what has happened to all the people around us.  We are among the very few we still know who have never gotten covid -- coz we constantly mask, etc.

And those few who also haven't gotten covid do the same, and are very careful of public gatherings, whether indoor or out.

We know by now people who have been infected and sick more than once.  Each time for them it was worse.  Not to mention those with long covid.

In the meantime Partner returned 9 days ago from 2 weeks in Cuba, where never once was a mask worn outside of the airport and plane.  Always outdoors, except when in the room alone. Nobody among the multiples w/whom were interacted with had even heard of anyone they knew who had gotten covid in the last year +. This is entirely different from the first year and half of covid, and the half year by the time everyone was finally vaccinated w/Cuba's own vaccine -- which wasn't as effective as 'our' vaccines. But then Cuba wasn't allowed to even purchase syringes, and could not, because it is SO POOR.  But w/o its own vaccines, far more people would have been sick and died. They also did a curfew and lockdown for very long periods. But right now, by golly, it looks like Cuba's doing OK with covid -- though for very little else other than music and spirituality -- but who knows how quickly that will change -- despite so many having been infected in the past.

And no -- no matter how often Partner tested before, during and after -- always negative.  Make of that what you will.

But here in NYC everybody seems to be getting it, and generally people say it is AWFUL.  A lot of them -- speaking of people we know well -- are having it more than once.

 

 

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I have not had a positive test of symptoms of COVID either. I'm somewhere in between on masking and distancing and such. I generally hate wearing a mask so I don't do it all the time just in case, but I do for riskier situations (long periods indoors with close contact with people--at the gym, for example, and on public transit). I know plenty of people who are far more conscientious who have gotten it and people who are less that haven't, so I don't think there's really a bright line of "I don't get COVID because I'm super careful." Lots of luck involved.

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Huge wave at my work currently, at least five teachers positive in the last two weeks as of today. Probably also loads of kids but since neither testing or reporting positives to us is an obligation anymore we can't be sure, we just know that lots are sick and many had fevers when they were sent home. 

I wasn't fully in any of the affected groups but I was jumping in and out of the one where all five teachers were (to cover for their absences). There's definitely been a kid or two passing it around to the adults. Possibly the fact that I had the booster relatively recently might help me, but I might well come down with it again soon.

Testing regularly of course.  

I'm more nervous than I expected to be, because of the impact the first bout six months ago is still having on me. 

 

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13 hours ago, Zorral said:

NYC Pushes Indoor Mask Advisory for All as ‘Worst' Omicron Strain Fuels 6th Wave

There is certainly good logic around masking.  When it comes to BA.5 though, there is nothing particularly mysterious about it.  South African and Portugal have gone through BA.5 waves, so one can evaluate how transmissible it is (very) and how fatal it is (similar to other Omicron waves).

https://www.dw.com/en/portugal-overcomes-omicron-subvariant-wave/av-62399421

If you don't want to get COVID, this variant is definitely disturbing (and nobody wants to get sick).  But if you don't want to die, then its no more disturbing than any recent variant (and far less disturbing than Delta).

Edited by Padraig
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On 7/8/2022 at 7:08 PM, KalVsWade said:

The article also says that it's the worst, and that's simply not an accurate statement by any measurable goals. 

I agree with Kal, so either this is so correct as to be a statement like “the sky is blue,” or hell has frozen over.

 

ETA - BF was on call this weekend, so I overheard a lot of telemedicine visits on Covid. Mostly people 65+ with other conditions who wanted Paxlovid. None of them had severe anything; the worst was a guy who had some sinus trouble with it. No one short of breath, etc. All but one had been vaxxed and boosted - mostly double boosted.

They really wanted reassurance, really.

Edited by Chataya de Fleury
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My experience is different, though I work in the Emergency Department. At least in the UK there's plenty of COVID at the moment leading to all the usual consequences ( staff off sick, positive patients everywhere etc etc), and they do require more than 'reassurance', they require what they always have, oxygen steroids etc. Of course, we are not where we were in previous waves thanks to vaccination, and thank fuck for that.

To me, things like masking, distancing, Lateral Flows are things I still do in crowded places, but that's because I have easy access to lateral flows.

Also re: Paxlovid, it's of little value in the majority of vaccinated folk, and of uncertain value in the higher risk categories that are vaccinated. To me, like lots of antiviral drugs ( think Tamiflu, Remdesivir), it's of little value.

Edited by Raja
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5 hours ago, Raja said:

My experience is different, though I work in the Emergency Department. At least in the UK there's plenty of COVID at the moment leading to all the usual consequences ( staff off sick, positive patients everywhere etc etc), and they do require more than 'reassurance', they require what they always have, oxygen steroids etc. Of course, we are not where we were in previous waves thanks to vaccination, and thank fuck for that.

Sounds like different patient populations because of your specialties. You are going to see people in the Emergency Department, and he’s going to see people who are nowhere near sick enough to be in the Emergency Department.

Indeed, thank goodness for vaccinations, because otherwise there would be far more people way worse off. 

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2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

 he’s going to see people who are nowhere near sick enough to be in the Emergency Department.

Yes & No. Obviously we see the sickest covid patients, but Emergency Departments are full of people not sick enough to be there, that's why we have giant waiting rooms ( Though ofc you get sick people there too)

Anecdotally, I'd say the covid positive ones younger than 40 are the ones that are well enough not to be there. But when you get to ages 65+, a lot of the time they are unwell enough to be admitted to the hospital - and this can be due to a few reasons such as being off legs ( ie off baseline in terms of mobility), or delirious.

Edited by Raja
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Taking all the precautions oneself because one doesn't want to get sick, and the likelyhood of being sick being severely sick, long covid, etc. is one thing.  And one can't avoid getting sick only by oneself, when nobody else is taking any precautions whatsoever.

Then there is this perennial problem that with so many getting sick because of the variants' easy work-arounds to prevention vaccines, even if on average it's not 'that severe' there are so many who are sick, and even those who aren't so much -- this again puts a really big hit on staffing for everything, including administration in the hospitals and medical offices.  My niece, who is supposed to have had surgery for weeks -- the office just plain lost her records.  They finally admitted to it, and that they can't find her records of tests and so on, and so they don't know what to do.

In a non-medical situation, we dropped our fone service provider for another one, paid all the fees, but AT&T can't find the records that we did so. "Somebody did something wrong," is all they say, and they don't know what to do either, other than to keep billing us.  Or charge us yet again a stupidly massive amount of money -- again -- to get shut of godawful AT&T.

It's so weird that people keep ignoring the facts staring them in the face that with this many people sick all the time everywhere -- not to mention those with long covid -- that this doesn't make hits on everything else too, not only the consumer medical business.

 

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Potential dangers of reinfection (draft paper)

 

Unfortunately, this seems to be more data-based rather than mechanism-based. Hope there will be more granular data and studies soon.

 

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Dreadful news regarding covid here, but nobody is even recommending doing anything.  Numbers aren't reported, though from what the professionals see, we're even with, and extremely likely in reality, to be far higher than previous peak of cases in January.

What does this mean -- even beyond the medical professionals' burn-out, understaffing, and consequent confusion, bewilderment and just not giving a damn any longer?

Our friend's dearly beloved mother, who is in a supposedly very fine nursing home, keeps getting medicated with an epilepsy medication, which turns her into a zombie.  She doesn't have epilepsy, she has progressive dementia, but her quality of life is just fine, if she's provided proper quality of food, and is NOT MEDICATED.  But three times now, our friend and her husband have had to take her mother to an outside physicians for tests to prove her mother doesn't have epilepsy.  And then right back they go shoving that med down her throat -- despite the known facts that friend and husband visit her mom at least once every week, take her out on excursions and for meals, call her every day.

They just had to do the same bs routine last week again, because again, when they arrived last Thursday, mom was a zombie.  And now ...  mom is positive for covid, as are several other members of the community -- which charges a massive amount, btw.  They've drugged her with that medication again, as they can tell when they try to talk to her on the phone.

Nor are they now allowed to visit as the home has shut down because of covid, and outsiders have to be kept out.

They are fairly certain this is the death sentence for their mom (husband loves his mil very much, and has proved it over and over).  They don't know what to do.

 

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