[Spoilers] Episode 106 Discussion

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

 

Which to bring it back to Westeros, Daenerys being compared to George W. Bush in Iraq and not respecting local cultures and trying to "impose democracy" is a wholly different beast than destroying the slave system.

There's actually nothing to respect about Ghiscari slaver culture.  Everything (the dress, the religion, the customs) revolves around domination and subjugation.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Here’s a (probably) unpopular opinion: in the books, I found the northern characters from the Dance rather arrogant and cringe. I’m sure the fanboys will love them, but I never liked any of them much. Even Black Aly was #notlikeothergirls.

[Mark Antony]

Proud Cringe Northern Fanboy here. Can’t wait for Cregan. Roddy the Ruin biggest badass of the dance 

[Khloey]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s a (probably) unpopular opinion: in the books, I found the northern characters from the Dance rather arrogant and cringe. I’m sure the fanboys will love them, but I never liked any of them much. Even Black Aly was #notlikeothergirls.

 I agree with you. Never understood all the hype around Cregan Stark.. I find him to be a real moron..

[Winterfell is Burning]

16 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The one argument I hate is that the Ironborn parallel the Confederacy/KKK. The South was fertile, prosperous, and had equal representation in federal government. The Iron Islands are impoverished, barren wastelands that the crown completely ignored and granted no political influence (not a single Ironborn council member) or aid even after centuries of loyalty. They have good reason to hate the rest of Westeros.

Did the Ironborn even tried to do it? Seems like people like The Reader are very much exceptions.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

25 minutes ago, Khloey said:

 I agree with you. Never understood all the hype around Cregan Stark.. I find him to be a real moron..

Cregan himself was fine, but I thought that the Winter Wolves being willing to "die for the dragon queen" just because Cregan and Jace got along was a bit meh.

[Mark Antony]

1 minute ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Cregan himself was fine, but I thought that the Winter Wolves being willing to "die for the dragon queen" just because Cregan and Jace got along was a bit meh.

Also because they went south with the intention to die as winter was about to arrive and the north can’t feed that many mouths. 

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s a (probably) unpopular opinion: in the books, I found the northern characters from the Dance rather arrogant and cringe. I’m sure the fanboys will love them, but I never liked any of them much. Even Black Aly was #notlikeothergirls.

I don't think that's as unpopular as you think! many Dance characters are either tropes or other kinds of non-characters.... but I personally don't mind them since , well, even Rhaenyra and Alicent aren't written with much of personalities.

[The Bard of Banefort]

53 minutes ago, Khloey said:

 I agree with you. Never understood all the hype around Cregan Stark.. I find him to be a real moron..

I thought he was kind of an asshole. Misses the entire war then walks in like he owns the place. He also had that holier-than-thou attitude that Ned inherited. Roddy the Ruin reminded me of the northmen from Asha’s chapters in ADWD. They were also pretty douchey.

22 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Did the Ironborn even tried to do it? Seems like people like The Reader are very much exceptions.

Officially speaking, yes. It probably still went on behind closed doors, but only Dalton, Dagon, and Balon ever officially encouraged reaving (and Dalton initially did it in service of Rhaenyra).

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

31 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Also because they went south with the intention to die as winter was about to arrive and the north can’t feed that many mouths. 

I never thought that made sense, because the summers are also longer, so they have more time to grow crops and harvest.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[EggBlue]

1 minute ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I never thought that made sense, because the summers are also longer, so they gave more time to grow crops and harvest.

say to George and he'll say you are a sweet summer child! honestly , don't try to make much sense of the season issues in these books . not much is written about preserving the crops , crop transportation , how Winter Town works , etc. 

[butterweedstrover]

Has Graham McTavish spoken at all? People were really excited to see him casted into the show and he is like invisible. 

[butterweedstrover]

Oh yeah, @Ran I found the quote in the book I meant to reference about Rhaenyra being jealous of Alicent. 

Quote

Childbirth exacted a toll on the princess; the weight that Rhaenyra gained during her pregnancies never entirely left her, and by the time her youngest boy was born, she had grown stout and thick of waist, the beauty of her girlhood a fading memory, though she was but twenty years of age. According to Mushroom, this only served to deepen her resentment of her stepmother, Queen Alicent, who remained slender and graceful at half again her age.

So either way in the book Rhaenyra does not have a good period of motherhood which might have less led to a less stressful and thereby allowing her to raise good children. Yet also in F&B her children are far more noble and kind than Alicent's. 

Which gets to the point the show contradicts both the material and itself by all the suddenly having Alicent be this evil jealous step mother. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[Denam_Pavel]

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I never thought that made sense, because the summers are also longer, so they have more time to grow crops and harvest.

Not every harvest goes well, and things can go wrong with food storage. That winter is coming on the other hand is certain.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

31 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Has Graham McTavish spoken at all? People were really excited to see him casted into the show and he is like invisible. 

I think he has spoken in every episode he's been in. 

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s a (probably) unpopular opinion: in the books, I found the northern characters from the Dance rather arrogant and cringe. I’m sure the fanboys will love them, but I never liked any of them much. Even Black Aly was #notlikeothergirls.

Cregan Stark is definitely an ass when he finally shows up. He is basically the Late Cregan Stark. Coming too late to the war, and then demanding that people bow to his ridiculous demands.

I think the show should follow my lead there and consider the possibility of a Rhaenyra-Cregan match in the wake of Daemon's death. The book has them exchange letters multiple times and it is pretty obvious that Rhaenyra would have won the war and been restored to the throne if she had accompanied her supporters either to Gulltown or White Harbor. Her loyalists were raising more troops already, after all, and they had the power to crush her enemies.

If Rhaenyra had gone North rather than to Dragonstone it isn't out of the question she and Cregan would have sealed the Pact of Ice and Fire Jace made with their own marriage. Of course, nothing could come from that, but it could be a nice way to play up Cregan's importance.

Roddy the Ruin is cool, though. Not much of a character, though, having a death wish alone isn't enough ;-).

Black Aly I did enjoy because she is a female general. You don't have a lot of them. The average noblewoman in the Dance pretty much does nothing.

4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Cregan himself was fine, but I thought that the Winter Wolves being willing to "die for the dragon queen" just because Cregan and Jace got along was a bit meh.

You should not focus so much on the reasoning behind it - they wanted to die to spare their families useless mouths. That's all. Rhaenyra asking for their help certainly had some effect on that ... but if Aegon had asked them they may have jumped on that chance, too.

Jace visiting the North with Vermax must have had some effect, though. Dragons and Targaryens seem to be a rare(r) sight in the North these days, so it would have had a similar effect on the North in general as Stannis' visit to the clansmen had. People who have never seen a king or prince for ages might be inclined to pledge themselve to him if he searches them out.

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I think he has spoken in every episode he's been in. 

Minus mundane utilitarian transitional talking points like: 

“right this way” 

“the door to your left my lady” 

“Of course your grace” 

“As you wish” 

“at once” 

etc.

[RumHam]

I think you're being a bit hard on Cregan. Making sure his people din't starve is a pretty good excuse for being late. I'd probably be in a bad mood too if I rallied all my men from such great distances and marched them south only to learn the war was over.

To me he basically comes off like I imagine Ned would if we never saw him interacting with his kids.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

4 hours ago, RumHam said:

I think you're being a bit hard on Cregan. Making sure his people din't starve is a pretty good excuse for being late. I'd probably be in a bad mood too if I rallied all my men from such great distances and marched them south only to learn the war was over.

To me he basically comes off like I imagine Ned would if we never saw him interacting with his kids.

With all this talk about Cregan, I kind of forgot that he wasn't in this episode.

[RumHam]

29 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

With all this talk about Cregan, I kind of forgot that he wasn't in this episode.

I don't even think he's in this season.