Spockydog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Right. Would you like living in Moscow for the next ten years over living in New York? Would you like the leader of your country to be Vladimir Putin or Joe Biden? Would you like to live in a repressive authoritarian country or a flawed democracy? Again, this isn't hard, and if you want the former, good luck with that considering you're someone who likes to buck social norms. I'm sure Vlad will be super cool with you growing weed. Oh, wait... I wouldn’t choose to live in the USA or Russia if you paid me. As I said, my point has nothing, at all, to do with which is the nicer place to live. How many times do I have to say this? Anyway, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 And, btw, megalol at thinking the USA in 2023 is a nice place to live. It's just as fucked up as the UK, but with added school shootings, millions and millions of guns, and deadly fucking police. Of course, if you're rich and white ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 36 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Just kinda amusing how things went from the shining city upon a hill to we are sorta better than Russia. It's just funny, when you put those sales pitches next to each other. Except that's never been the case. 22 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Okay. To be clear. I am simply talking about the USA's habit of shitting themselves whenever a nation on their doorstep elects anything remotely resembling a socialist government. No matter whether Russia are left or right, it is extremely unlikley they would invade a nation such as, let's say, Venezuela, in order to steal their oil and/or remove the lefties. The same cannot be said of the USA. Nah, that doesn't actually happen. Just a minority freaks out, while also wanting all the socialist policies that they like. And um, last I checked, Russia is invading a country right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Would you like the leader of your country to be Vladimir Putin or Joe Biden? The others in this thread are trying to tell you that those people don't want them as their leader at all. E.g. the Brazilians voted in Lula, that was their democratical choice, flawed as it may have been. Why should they have to pick Biden or Putin. Your question is a bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Spockydog said: Okay. To be clear. I am simply talking about the USA's habit of shitting themselves whenever a nation on their doorstep elects anything remotely resembling a socialist government. No matter whether Russia are left or right, it is extremely unlikley they would invade a nation such as, let's say, Venezuela, in order to steal their oil and/or remove the lefties. The same cannot be said of the USA. Mexico, an oil-rich country literally on USA's doorstep, is ruled by a left-wing party, and no-one is shitting themselves or talking about invading it. Again, it's not the Cold War anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I mean all the same, would you like to go to New York or Moscow? Keep in mind for leaders like Bolsonaro and so many other rightist, klepto, plundering authoritarian anti-democrcy leaders the first choice is Miami. BTW, Brazil has issued an arrest warrant for the Chief of Police that is in Miami with Bolsonaro. One is doubtful the US will be doing extradition out of -- Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 36 minutes ago, Gorn said: Mexico, an oil-rich country literally on USA's doorstep, is ruled by a left-wing party, and no-one is shitting themselves or talking about invading it. Again, it's not the Cold War anymore. Which oddly, made me wonder if Biden had axed the embargo on Cuba. For a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Most of the major countries in Latin America have a left wing President now. Brazil. Chile. Peru. Mexico. Colombia. Venezuela. Bolivia. IIRC. I can't remember what Argentina is. Of course, the government in Venezuela and Cuba take a different approach to running their countries than others in that list. Not all left wing governments are the same, to state something obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, kiko said: The others in this thread are trying to tell you that those people don't want them as their leader at all. E.g. the Brazilians voted in Lula, that was their democratical choice, flawed as it may have been. Why should they have to pick Biden or Putin. Your question is a bit weird. Because one is a moderate liberal and the other is a dictator. Seems like an easy choice to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: And um, last I checked, Russia is invading a country right now. What they are doing is showing the world that they cannot invade shit, and that the only nation that Latin Americans (and probably Canadians) should feel any need to fear is the USA. Them water wars, they a comin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, Spockydog said: What they are doing is showing the world that they cannot invade shit, and that the only nation that Latin Americans (and probably Canadians) should feel any need to fear is the USA. Them water wars, they a comin'. Like our recent track record on invading people is that much better... Countries in Central and South America don't need to worry about the US invading them. There's certainly other concerns, but that one shouldn't be to high on the list. OTOH, Canada and it's sweet, sweet water, those fuckers are marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Padraig said: Most of the major countries in Latin America have a left wing President now. Brazil. Chile. Peru. Mexico. Colombia. Venezuela. Bolivia. IIRC. I can't remember what Argentina is. Of course, the government in Venezuela and Cuba take a different approach to running their countries than others in that list. Not all left wing governments are the same, to state something obvious. For chile, left wing it is not, its a liberal goverment, center left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Zorral said: Keep in mind for leaders like Bolsonaro and so many other rightist, klepto, plundering authoritarian anti-democrcy leaders the first choice is Miami. BTW, Brazil has issued an arrest warrant for the Chief of Police that is in Miami with Bolsonaro. One is doubtful the US will be doing extradition out of -- Miami. The arrest warrant is for Brasilia’s security secretary who was also Bolsonaro’s Justice Minister. He has issued a statement saying he’s cutting his holidays in Orlando short to go back to Brazil and ‘prepare his defence’ and that everyone will see how awesomely innocent he is. Brasilia’s police commander was arrested this afternoon. There’s also some sort of legal request - which I’m sure has a proper name - to freeze all of Bozo’s accounts and assets, but there’s no ruling on that yet. The 1,500 who have been arrested are being kept in a gym while they’re being individually processed, but they released some 500 b/c they were elderly (too old for jail but not to riot apparently) and some women who had their kids with them ( ). They’ve been posting all manner of crazy shit non-stop - why are they allowed to keep their phones? - and complaining endlessly about the food and beds and whathaveyou. One justice was giving an interview and was asked about it. He said something to the effect of, ‘it’s jail, not summer camp’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 30 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: The arrest warrant is for Brasilia’s security secretary who was also Bolsonaro’s Justice Minister Thank you for the correction. There do seem to be some questions about the police too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, Zorral said: Thank you for the correction. There do seem to be some questions about the police too, right? Yeah. There are quite a few different police forces/law enforcement agencies. I’m no expert on any of this, but from what I’m seeing and reading, there’s a lot of support for Bozo among officers, especially in the military police (which isn’t really military, they don’t answer to any armed forces but rather governors in each state. So more like regular cops, I suppose) and highway police (federal and state). It seems the Federal police (more like the FBI) has significantly fewer Bozo supporters. It may have something to do w/ the standards and requisites to join being much higher (high school v higher education etc). The governor of Brasilia and his security secretary (guy who’s on hols in Orlando) were responsible for security on Sunday. There was a security scheme in place that was to be carried out by the PM (regular cops). But the security secretary who took office on the previous Monday apparently changed the plans and took off on holidays. Then the police basically didn’t do anything to stop the protesters. The idea was to allow people to protest etc but they shouldn’t have been allowed to go so near to the buildings they vandalised, but the cops didn’t do anything to stop them. There’s some photos of cops taking selfies w/ rioters, etc. Today the police commander was arrested, and apparently he is talking. And there’s a lot of talk of intelligence failures - shocking! /s. Like there was a lot of info on dozens and dozens buses full of Bozo’s supporters arriving in Brasilia on the weekend, guns, etc. and no one really acted on it. Some reps and senators from Bozo’s coalition said this info was passed to the government. Lula’s Justice Minister said he got in touch w/ Brasilia’s governor several times since the previous Thursday and was repeatedly reassured that nothing was going to happen, that everything was totally under control. He says he has hard proof, emails, messages. We’ll see. Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, I’m half asleep! ps: forgot to say a search warrant was executed today in the home of the guy who’s in Orlando, the security secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 So would it be wise for Bozo to immediately leave the us and claim amnesty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Because one is a moderate liberal and the other is a dictator. Seems like an easy choice to make. I'm not really sure that we talk about the same thing here. But can you explain to me why the people of Brazil (pars pro toto for let's say every democratic country) would want to be governed by either Biden or Putin? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 11 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: So would it be wise for Bozo to immediately leave the us and claim amnesty? Not sure that would work. Hopefully it won’t. There’s been protests already demanding ‘no amnesty’ b/c of what happened at the end of the military dictatorship. Apparently he told CNN that he is going back to Brazil sooner than he’d originally planned. ps: and all state capitals on high alert, especially Rio, São Paulo & Brasilia b/c there’s a lot of chatter about more violence and riots today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Lula and his administration say that police worked with the rioters, and a judge has approved warrants for the arrest of two key law enforcement officials close to Bolsonaro: Anderson Torres and Colonel Fábio Augusto Vieira. Police have also searched Torres’s home. Pro-Bolsonaro groups have been camped near military posts and buildings since the election; it appears the insurrectionists’ plan was to induce the military to join them. -- Heather Cox Richardson's Substack, subscription only. Brazilian judge orders arrest of 2 security officials after riot; hundreds of detainees released https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/10/brazil-riot-insurrection-bolsonaro-lula/? Quote .... Justice Alexandre de Moraes approved warrants for the arrests of Anderson Torres, the public security secretary for the federal district of Brasília, and Col. Fábio Augusto, commander of military police in the district, according to a court official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the matter. ... Bolsonaro eyes return to Brazil as US stay pressures Biden https://apnews.com/article/jair-bolsonaro-politics-united-states-government-brazil-5d5f0fb703ddc7de29fdad93a0149435? Quote .... But so far the Biden administration has proceeded cautiously. On Monday, State Department spokesman Ned Price, while sidestepping questions about Bolsonaro’s presence, said anyone entering the U.S. on a so-called A-1 visa reserved for sitting heads of state would have 30 days to either leave the country or adjust their status with the Department of Homeland Security at the conclusion of their term of office. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Zorral said: Anderson Torres and Colonel Fábio Augusto Vieira The first is the guy who’s in Orlando who said he’s going back today, the latter is the police commander who was arrested yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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