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So, was Tywin going to let Tyrion take the black?


Canon Claude
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Do you mean after he lost the trial by combat? Or when Tyrion had his father at crossbow-point in the privy? I guess it doesn't matter, though, my answer's the same either way.

Absolutely not. As you say, Tywin loathes Tyrion and this is his chance to kill his son guiltfree. His talk about offering Tyrion the black was just his usual attempts to manipulate any situation.

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What was Tyrion going to be doing at Castle Black? While he can fight it isn't ideal for him so being a Ranger is out, and I don't think Tywin would have allowed him access to his custom saddles. A builder? Doesn't seem his type of work. Would he be any good as a steward, and what type?

Plus Cersei would probably have sent a Kettleblack to murder Tyrion if she was willing to do something similar to Jon Snow.

Meanwhile, why didn't Tywin think of sending him to the Night's Watch, or the citadel for that matter? He would have jumped at the chance to get rid of Tyrion.

Edited by Angel Eyes
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No, I think Tywin was trying to get Tyrion killed. Especially with the "stunt" Tyrion pulled by getting Oberyn Martell (and thus, all of Dorne) involved in his trial by combat against the Mountain wherein the Mountain made a very loud and public confession.

18 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Would he be any good as a steward

Yes. The type of steward doesn't matter.

Tyrion's only shot at the Wall is to be a steward or to somehow become a high-ranking building officer. He does have experience in turns of plumbing.

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well they do take anyone. I don't think they have a height restriction. he could do any of the thinking jobs and probably some physical jobs. Sharpening weapons?

anyway no, I think Tywin was telling him a fairy tale. He would support any Lannister even Tyrion but not if he thinks they have turned on the family and killed one of them, even someone as bad as Joffrey.

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Alright we talking about when Tyrion had him at crossbow point at the end of the third book? No way, in hell. Tywin was basically willing to say anything to save his own skin. I do find it funny that even with his life on the line, Tywin couldn't resist to call Tysha a whore. It's like the guy didn't think Tyrion had it in him, even at that point.

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

What was Tyrion going to be doing at Castle Black? While he can fight it isn't ideal for him so being a Ranger is out, and I don't think Tywin would have allowed him access to his custom saddles. A builder? Doesn't seem his type of work. Would he be any good as a steward, and what type?

Plus Cersei would probably have sent a Kettleblack to murder Tyrion if she was willing to do something similar to Jon Snow.

Meanwhile, why didn't Tywin think of sending him to the Night's Watch, or the citadel for that matter? He would have jumped at the chance to get rid of Tyrion.

Tyrion would have done very, very well at the Wall. Lord Commander Mormont even said so; "we could use men like you." He can read, and write. He is extremely well educated, far more than most men at the Wall. He even has a lot of plumbing experience. If Samwell Tarly can be accepted into the Nights Watch, Tyrion can as well. And still very well might.

I doubt Cersei could cause Tyrion too much trouble. The Kettleblack plot with Jon didn't go as planned, so it isn't very demonstrative of anything.

But no, Tywin was never going to let Tyrion join the Watch, or the Citadel. That would have been far too lowly a position for a mighty Lannister, even one such as Tyrion. Tywin wanted him dead.

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4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

I personally don’t think he would, since he was determined to finally kill Tyrion once and for all. Moreso than even Cersei, I daresay. But I was wondering if anyone disagrees.

Put me in the "disagree" camp.  Other characters need not be viewed 100% through the lens of Tyrion's envy and self-pity and general malice.

Edited by Gilbert Green
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Is there any actual evidence that Tywin was planning to have Tyrion killed?  I don't recall any.  That's before the crossbow incident of course; after that, if Tywin had lived, things would have been very different.

I agree with Nathan Stark that, if Tyrion had gone to the Wall, he would have done reasonably well.  Most of the men of the Watch are not well educated; Tyrion's knowledge and cleverness would have been useful.  He would have ended up as an assistant to the maester, or perhaps as a senior steward, where his ability to read, write, and do math would be valuable.  Had he played his cards right, he could have been sent to the Citadel for further study, as Jon Snow did with Sam.

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I think he would have. Tywin doesn't like Tyrion but that doesn't mean he wants him dead. He's still his son, he treats him as one (albeit not a favoured son, obviously) and expects other people to do likewise. He sends Tyrion as his proxy Hand, not anyone else, and he planned for Tyrion to found a new Lannister dynasty in the North. None of this is indicative of a father who is looking for an excuse to kill his son. If he really wanted Tyrion dead, he could have arranged for him to "die of his wounds" following the Blackwater: Pycelle would have gladly obliged and kept his trap shut. Instead he gives him a new job and brings him back onto the Small Council.

Overall, Tyrion is annoying but he's also capable of being a valuable asset, and Tywin doesn't consider him a threat. That, plus the family connection, means that killing him for no reason seems out of character for Tywin. While he has the capacity for great ruthlessness he is not a homicidal maniac: he is also capable of great magnanimity, and he does care about his family - in a warped, unhealthy way, sure, but he does still care.

Now, would Cersei have Tyrion killed out of spite? Absolutely. She's the crazy, spiteful one in the family. The fiasco following Joffrey's death has every appearance of Cersei disrupting Tywin's plans by accusing Tyrion, after which Tywin has to make the best of a bad job. Letting Tyrion go to the Wall - perhaps with the long-term intention of pardoning him! - is an acceptable way out.

And a further, major, consideration - if Tywin told Jaime he was going to let Tyrion take the black and then went back on that and had him killed, Jaime would never forgive him. Even if Tywin did want Tyrion dead, I'd wager he'd rather keep him alive to preserve his relationship with Jaime.

Would Tyrion have coped at the Wall? Sure. He'd probably have made a good steward. He could even have gone off to the Citadel with Sam in due course.

Edited by Adelstein
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On 11/18/2022 at 3:24 PM, Canon Claude said:

I personally don’t think he would, since he was determined to finally kill Tyrion once and for all. Moreso than even Cersei, I daresay. But I was wondering if anyone disagrees.

There may be a limit as dictated by the severity of the crime.  Tyrion is accused of assassinating a king.  On the one hand, Ser One-Hand murdered King Aerys and he's still a free man. 

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

How exactly would Tywin be able to send Tyrion to the Wall? He lost his trial. Sending him to the Wall would basically be admitting the trial was all for show.

 Condemed prisoners  usualy have the option to take the black.

Tywin potentialy  (again potentialy) if he so chose could have sent ravens to ask tyrion was treated well and in return gold, recruits,provisions and steel would be sent north with his son.

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4 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

There may be a limit as dictated by the severity of the crime.  Tyrion is accused of assassinating a king.  On the one hand, Ser One-Hand murdered King Aerys and he's still a free man. 

It may be as that king was the one the current one overthrew it didnt matter, someone in the rebelling forces had to kill him and jamie generaly seemed to be seen as someone who broke his vows to back his familys war on aerys.

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1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

 Condemed prisoners  usualy have the option to take the black.

Tywin potentialy  (again potentialy) if he so chose could have sent ravens to ask tyrion was treated well and in return gold, recruits,provisions and steel would be sent north with his son.

Yea, but for killing a king, after losing his trial. That's pushing it.

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