Football: The Winter Break

[Winterfell is Burning]

3 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

WTF, I miss the most exciting games.

Have to wonder, is this the World Cup that marks sort of the end of European dominance on the global stage? Nearly all the European teams are sort of limping through the group stages (to be fair, very few teams have asserted themselves)

It's still very much possible we have 4 Europeans in the semifinals (though seems hard to imagine now Brazil out of it, and Argentina looks likely), but looks like Nations League might have been a shot in the foot. Europeans only play themselves, so have no exposure to teams from other continents. Also, non-Europeans have much more access to European football than the reverse, so they might not even have watched other teams play.

[Daemon the Leaner]

I know it's a bit of a hot take and probably too soon to put that on the table, but is Hansi Flick a one season wonder coach?

Because despite the lack of a top number 9, this is a huge disappointment considering the team he has. I'm not sure why he didn't dropped Muller for Fullkrug tonight.

As a sidenote, he could have done much better with Bayern in his last season (20/21) as well.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Advances in sport physiology and nutrition also mean many of the Asian and African nations may have reduced the 'fitness gap', a huge advantage European nations have had since the 70s/80s. I think Japan is a prime example of this (and indeed, the coach sort of alluded to this)

[A Horse Named Stranger]

22 minutes ago, Daemon the Leaner said:

I know it's a bit of a hot take and probably too soon to put that on the table, but is Hansi Flick a one season wonder coach?

Because despite the lack of a top number 9, this is a huge disappointment considering the team he has. I'm not sure why he didn't dropped Muller for Fullkrug tonight.

As a sidenote, he could have done much better with Bayern in his last season (20/21) as well.

Flick isn't in danger of getting the sack - I think. 

Disclaimer I obviously haven't watched any of the games, so I have to rely on reporting.

The Japan game was apparently a freak accident. Germany dominated that game, and could/should've been up by two. Then they stopped playing football and lost the game against Japan. Japan are apparently not some filler team this year, as they have won the group and also beaten Spain, who are simply a better team than Germany - and whom I considered to be one of the dark horses pre tournament. Not a frontrunner for the title, but if things go Spain's way they could end up with the title.

A draw against Spain is a respectable result (check above).

They delivered the goods (result) against Costa Rica.

 

[polishgenius]

21 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

and whom I considered to be one of the dark horses pre tournament.

There are no circumstances under which Spain could be considerd a 'dark horse', surely.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

35 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There are no circumstances under which Spain could be considerd a 'dark horse', surely.

Why not?

They are not favorites to win it. That's France, England and Brazil. Those were the most likely teams to win it. Spain are still in sorta rebuild mode. There's a lot of young talent there (Pedri, Gavi, Fati, Williams, Pino and Balde), but this cycle is too early for them. So if things really started to fall in place for that team, I could see them making a run. You always need to have a bit of good fortunes to win a World Cup.

[Winterfell is Burning]

LOL, now I realized Flick put Ginter on the 90 minute only so he didn't finish his 3rd World Cup without playing a single minute.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Why not?

Because they were fifth favourites to win the thing. Before a ball was kicked.

 

[Spockydog]

Did it cross the line? Germany out as Japan and Spain progress

I have precisely £311 worth of flying fucks to give. 

 

 

[Corvinus85]

Wow, just watched both games at the same time. For about 15 minutes, both European power houses were out.

Japan are now World Cup winning contenders (or they would be if they were another of the regular top teams). Beat both Germany and Spain. Come on. 

Spain were the epitome of arrogance at the start of the 2nd half. I do wonder if the Spaniards were entirely content to advance in 2nd place after Morocco won their group. That way they avoid Croatia. They were only truly worried when Costa Rica was leading in the other game. 

[Spockydog]

6 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Japan are now World Cup winning contenders (or they would be if they were another of the regular top teams). Beat both Germany and Spain. Come on. 

Aye. The current odds of 50/1 for a team who've already beaten those guys do seem a tad long. Especially E/W which is 1/2 the odds.

 

[polishgenius]

8 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Why not?

 

 

Coz that phrase generally means a team you'd never normally consider as having a chance but for whom things might just come together. Teams like Japan and Morocco potentially. Not someone like Spain.

[baxus]

16 hours ago, Spockydog said:

The 3 teams per group, 48 nation format will almost certainly get binned after 2026 turns into an even worse WC than Qatar. 

There is no way FIFA backtracks on the number of teams in the tournament. Sure, there will be a lot of boring games in group stages at first, but it will improve over time as those 32-48 ranked teams catch up. Of course, before they do that properly, FIFA will switch to 64 teams World Cup. 

15 hours ago, Padraig said:

And given the size of Russia (and it has hosted the WC), any bunch of countries can make some sort of logical sense.  A bunch of South American countries aren't that far apart relatively speaking.

If I remember correctly, Russia 2018 World Cup matches were all played in European part or Russia which, while huge, is minority of Russian territory.

12 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

And this is why the last games have to be played at the same time. 

I'm not even sure that's enough any more. Maybe teams from groups that would face each other in the first knockout stage should all play at the same time.

For example, Spain lost yesterday but what did they lose really? The opportunity to play Croatia and got to play Morocco instead? Not saying they'd throw a match on purpose (at least not without proof ) but it wouldn't surprise me. Now, I must say that I've seen only bits and pieces of this World Cup and didn't watch any of the matches from that group, so I'm going only on traditional perception of Croatian and Moroccan teams.

[Raja]

who's gonna pay big for tall mark noble?

[baxus]

Rice has "Manchester United" written all over him.

[Spockydog]

1 minute ago, baxus said:

Rice has "Manchester United" written all over him.

Come on, he's not that bad. 

Seriously, though. I'd have him. Have always rated him.

 

[baxus]

He will be, once he signs for them.

[Spockydog]

Always loved Ray Parlour. Top bloke, and seriously underrated player.

 

 

[Consigliere]

34 minutes ago, baxus said:

Rice has "Manchester United" written all over him.

You mean Chelsea.

That's the club that has shown the most interest in him for the past few years and where he's most likely to end up especially now with Jorginho and Kante likely leaving.

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

There is no way FIFA backtracks on the number of teams in the tournament. Sure, there will be a lot of boring games in group stages at first, but it will improve over time as those 32-48 ranked teams catch up. Of course, before they do that properly, FIFA will switch to 64 teams World Cup. 

If I remember correctly, Russia 2018 World Cup matches were all played in European part or Russia which, while huge, is minority of Russian territory.

I'm not even sure that's enough any more. Maybe teams from groups that would face each other in the first knockout stage should all play at the same time.

For example, Spain lost yesterday but what did they lose really? The opportunity to play Croatia and got to play Morocco instead? Not saying they'd throw a match on purpose (at least not without proof ) but it wouldn't surprise me. Now, I must say that I've seen only bits and pieces of this World Cup and didn't watch any of the matches from that group, so I'm going only on traditional perception of Croatian and Moroccan teams.

Yekaterinburg is on the "Asian" side of Russia but I get what you mean.  There wasn't games on the East coast of Russia after all!  I'm assuming the next World Cup is spread over a larger geographic area than the 2018 WC but Russia can surprise me about how big it is (even if the World Cup is only played in half the country).

Certainly the Southern American bid for 2030 is in a smaller region.

And yes, I agree that we will have at least 48 teams for all future World Cups.  I do think they will change the structure after the next World Cup though.  I'm sure it is giving Spain way too much credit to think they planned to lose yesterday.  Football is too freaky.  But it just needs one more event like the below before even FIFA is embarrassed enough to change things.  There was even a suggestion recently that FIFA isn't 100% wedded to the idea of 3 team groups.   There are a few people that remember this event after all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijón

I don't think there is a major rebalancing of power yet.   Japan blind sided two big names but lost to Costa Rica.  I don't think Croatia will fall into the same trap but Croatia have their own weaknesses, so Japan has a shout at least.  Admittedly, I saw little hope for Japan before this game too!

There may be less super powers in Europe though.  So far only France has covered itself in any glory.  But Spain could still turn it around.  They are an inexperienced team and been almost sure they were going to qualify (playing a team they totally dominated in the first half), obviously they had something to learn from that showing!  It certainly asks questions though.  They found few answers when they went behind yesterday.  Morocco haven't looked great but certainly will get confidence from Spain's display.