Raja Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Lmao, Rian Johnson was doing everything other than be lazy and repeat tropes from previous films, TLJ was the last good star wars movie and I wish Johnson had written the last one too. I don't think JJ is lazy per se, his films aren't really for me, but I don't think he's the best writer. I think he's decent if he has a good script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 So I said to myself, "Self, why not let's check out the Star Wars thread because why not." Nice to see the bi-weekly sequel trilogy back-and-forth rages on. As you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonath Diver Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Well glad you popped in for it. The previous several weeks have had great discussions about how compelling this new series has been. I don't think any of us has much energy left to complain about the sequel trilogy and its absolutely awful handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Argonath Diver said: Well glad you popped in for it. The previous several weeks have had great discussions about how compelling this new series has been. I don't think any of us has much energy left to complain about the sequel trilogy and its absolutely awful handling. I think the "problem" me and my best friend have watching Andor is, we keep asking ourselves, "why couldn't the sequels be this good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 41 minutes ago, sifth said: I think the "problem" me and my best friend have watching Andor is, we keep asking ourselves, "why couldn't the sequels be this good". This. Not to beat a dead horse but my heart would sink a little it every time i read a new opening crawl for the sequels, culminating with that absolutely dreadful crawl for Rise of Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Anna Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 20 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said: Their goal was to get money and to get some credit for making a more Star Warsy movie than the prequels. For the most part in TFA that succeeded; having a retread of the OT was largely fine by audiences. But in retrospect it was a colossally poor plan that sacrificed long term goodwill for short term gains. Well put. I think TFA, despite being a rehash, was fine for general audiences - including myself. I wasn't as big of a fan back then and I felt the movie succeeded at capturing SW magic. But in retrospect, it's as you say. And btw, I/we were saying the directors were "lazy" as a shorthand because that's how the complete trilogy comes across. Nothing on a personal basis. I've enjoyed their other works, even. Edit: and I'm sorry for bringing this up again. Idt I had ever discussed the ST here and I was just responding to the last few pages after reading the whole thread (and the previous one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 12 hours ago, Raja said: Lmao, Rian Johnson was doing everything other than be lazy and repeat tropes from previous films, TLJ was the last good star wars movie and I wish Johnson had written the last one too. I don't think JJ is lazy per se, his films aren't really for me, but I don't think he's the best writer. I think he's decent if he has a good script. The idea that Rian Johnson was being "adventurous and bold" with TLJ and that "the fans just didn't like it cause it took risks" is Disney propaganda. TLJ is a poor man's ESB, with a bit of ROTJ thrown in at the end. It even has a snow (sorry, salt ) planet with an attack by AT-ATs. The only thing Rian Johnson did that was "new" and "unexpected" was that he used the 8th film in a 9-film saga as an opportunity to take a massive dump on the previous 7 films. Admittedly, that is something no one's ever done before, but the reason no one's ever done it before is cause it's frigging stupid. The Last Jedi is not just the worst Star Wars film but the worst film ever. Sure, there have been plenty films with worse acting, dialogue etc but in terms of what TLJ could and should have been versus what it ended up being, nothing comes close. And for all the propaganda Disney spewed in their desperate attempts to defend TLJ, they clearly knew it was a massive mistake because Rise of the Skywalker attempted to backtrack on everything TLJ did (but was still shit). And they've also basically canned Rian Johnson's trilogy, which is good cause I don't want that self-indulgent hack and his smug, round face anywhere near Star Wars again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 It is baffling that Johnson was allowed to do what he did with TLJ, from a company that seems to keep a tight leash on its creatives. Sure TLJ still has to work within the Disney structure and on a lot of levels its an incredibly safe and static movie, but also Johnson makes such bizarre choices that seemingly needed to have half another movie to undo, you have to wonder what the hell was going on, why was nobody correcting his work? Anyway, Andor makes me think we've had a wasted 20 years when it comes to Star Wars. It's painful to imagine I could have had a proper prequel trilogy in this style, that feels real and less of a bizarre garbage cartoon, and a sequel trilogy of botched corporate AI generated nonsense. Sad sad sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Heartofice said: It is baffling that Johnson was allowed to do what he did with TLJ, from a company that seems to keep a tight leash on its creatives. As much as I despise Johnson's take, the fault lies mainly with JJ Abrams. He is the number one reason the sequel trilogy sucked. He introduced a bunch of in threads in Episode 7 (the mysterious disappearance of Luke, the introduction of Snoke) but had no plan for where those p;lot threads would go, simply leaving it to Johnson who, of course, was too lazy to take those threads anywhere interesting so just clumsily killed them off. There was no binding vision for the three films and that's on Abrams. Imagine getting the opportunity to make an entire Star Wars trilogy and instead of planning out a cohesive story, just choosing to wing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Nah, The Last Jedi is excellent ( Canto bight is a weakness though). It's on par with return of the jedi, I think only a new hope and empire are better than TLJ. 'Disney propaganda' , y'all need to go outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 For all those who take the line that the fans just didn't like TLJ cause it was "new", I'd point to Andor as an example of something that does something new with the SW universe. And the fans love it, putting paid to the notion that we don't like anything new. The reason Andor is welcomed with open arms is because it takes a new approach but uses it to flesh out the SW mythology rather than toss it out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Edit: NVM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Disney propaganda is such a weird take though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Call it what you like, but Disney spend time trying to get ahead of their critics and change the narrative of any negativity around their movies and tv shows. I’m not sure anyone would argue about that. One method yeah, is probably best described as ‘fan baiting’, putting stuff out that will obviously irritate fans and then turning around and pointing a finger at them and going with the ‘look it’s the man babies crying’ line. That very much happened with TLJ, after the first week where all the slightly shilly ludicrously positive reviews showed down, then suddenly real people got to see it and lots of fans were like ‘er… wtf is the rubbish?’ But it’s ok, they can be dismissed as just misogynistic man babies.. You can kind of see this tactic being used with almost everything Disney has done since. She-Hulk didn’t even bother to pretend it was happening, they just openly came out and blamed ‘man babies’ for hating their show.. before anyone had even seen it! The problem for Disney is all the critical voices disappear when they actually make something good. Funny that. Someone made a completely false comment earlier that internet trolls hated Andor, except it’s totally untrue, it’s almost universally loved. Because it’s good, and that’s what fans are asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 The Last Jedi did one thing right, as far as I'm concerned and it's Benicio Del Toro's character, giving a speech to Rose and Finn, about how they're hypocrites and that both the Rebellion (I mean Resistance) and the Empire (I mean First Order) both benefit and make contributions to the war economy. Now he does nothing at all, after this revelation aside from making Rose out to be a massive hypocrite, but it's still a nice scene, never the less. It's a lot harder to find anything I liked in The Rise of Skywalker. I guess the closest I can think of is the line from General Hux, "I don't want you idiots to win, I just want Kylo Ren to lose". General Pryde was a really cool character as well, but he made me wish he was in the other two films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Call it what you like, but Disney spend time trying to get ahead of their critics and change the narrative of any negativity around their movies and tv shows. I’m not sure anyone would argue about that. One method yeah, is probably best described as ‘fan baiting’, putting stuff out that will obviously irritate fans and then turning around and pointing a finger at them and going with the ‘look it’s the man babies crying’ line. That very much happened with TLJ, after the first week where all the slightly shilly ludicrously positive reviews showed down, then suddenly real people got to see it and lots of fans were like ‘er… wtf is the rubbish?’ But it’s ok, they can be dismissed as just misogynistic man babies.. You can kind of see this tactic being used with almost everything Disney has done since. She-Hulk didn’t even bother to pretend it was happening, they just openly came out and blamed ‘man babies’ for hating their show.. before anyone had even seen it! The problem for Disney is all the critical voices disappear when they actually make something good. Funny that. Someone made a completely false comment earlier that internet trolls hated Andor, except it’s totally untrue, it’s almost universally loved. Because it’s good, and that’s what fans are asking for. This short clip from Robcop 2, pretty much covers Disney's thinking, when it comes to bad PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, Heartofice said: The problem for Disney is all the critical voices disappear when they actually make something good. Funny that. Someone made a completely false comment earlier that internet trolls hated Andor, except it’s totally untrue, it’s almost universally loved. Because it’s good, and that’s what fans are asking for. Sure but I've not seen much praise from the usual haters either. Like Nerdrotic, whose channel is full of hateful videos about Disney shows and Rings of Power, but doesn't have any good reviews about shows like Andor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said: Sure but I've not seen much praise from the usual haters either. Like Nerdrotic, whose channel is full of hateful videos about Disney shows and Rings of Power, but doesn't have any good reviews about shows like Andor. I don’t think that is true. I don’t like Nerdrotic but I have seen him say very positive things about Andor. Critical Drinker has been lavishing praise over the show despite thinking it was going to be terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, Heartofice said: I don’t think that is true. I don’t like Nerdrotic but I have seen him say very positive things about Andor. Critical Drinker has been lavishing praise over the show despite thinking it was going to be terrible You also have people like The Drinker, who likes to plant a seed of negativity, when it comes to Andor, even though fully admitting it's a good show. I believe the way he worded it was "Andor is a good show and it's too little, too late". Guys like him need negativity, to get those clicks, even when Disney does something shocking and actually makes a good product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 1 minute ago, sifth said: You also have people like The Drinker, who liked plant a seed of negativity, when it comes to Andor, even though fully admitting it's a good show. I believe the way he worded it was "Andor is a good show and it's too little, too late". Guys like him need negativity, to get those clicks, even when Disney does something shocking and actually makes a good product. True, they are never going to go full out and praise Disney, but then it’s worth pointing out how much of an outlier something like Andor is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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