U.S politics: You got knocked the Warnocked out:

[Tywin et al.]

58 minutes ago, JGP said:

Nadya from Pussy Riot did a few interviews iirc about how bad that particular camp is.

Fuck that. 

Yep, I saw her give an interview on the conditions had she was clearly shaken just having to think about it. As bad as the jail conditions in the US are, it isn't that. Sounds like nearly WW2 conditions.

38 minutes ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Because Viktor Bout is on that sort of thing a Pretty Big Deal. Losing him for a non-political star like Griner is a new escalation in that scale; Bout previously would not have warranted that sort of exchange, like, ever.

The situation has become political. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. 

4 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You kinda have to wonder, what happened to the US policy of not making deal with terrorists. 

Terrorists are some of our best friends. We just rebrand them. 

[Fez]

11 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I am entirely in agreement with Kal. 

I find this deal obscene. Plain and simple. Ofc, I wasn't the one facing time in some gulag and I am not related to Griner in any shape or form, which makes it much easier to take the morale high ground here. 

You kinda have to wonder, what happened to the US policy of not making deal with terrorists. 

It's hardly the first time the US has done prisoner swaps. This article goes through some of the examples: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/world/europe/prisoner-swaps-exchanges-us.html

We have a long history going back to decades. Sometimes it was spy-for-spy swaps, like what we did with the Soviets in 1962; but not always.

And at least it was 1:1. Israel once released 1,027 Palestinians, many facing life sentences, for a single captured IDF soldier. 

[Kalbear]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The situation has become political. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. 

 

The situation was always political; the person was not. Normally prisoner exchanges are at least somewhat of a similar status and level. People who were otherwise non-political such as entertainers and sports stars were largely immune from this. This marks a new level, and it also marks a bit more serious of scale. 

[Fez]

3 minutes ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

The situation was always political; the person was not. Normally prisoner exchanges are at least somewhat of a similar status and level. People who were otherwise non-political such as entertainers and sports stars were largely immune from this. This marks a new level, and it also marks a bit more serious of scale. 

We literally just did this with Russia earlier this year. Trevor Reed was a civilian when he was arrested and sentenced to a gulag and the US got him back for a Russian cocaine smuggler.

[Tywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Fez said:

We literally just did this with Russia earlier this year. Trevor Reed was a civilian when he was arrested and sentenced to a gulag and the US got him back for a Russian cocaine smuggler.

The irony...

[DMC]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You kinda have to wonder, what happened to the US policy of not making deal with terrorists. 

Huh?  Fez ninja'd me but this has never actually been our practice.  We had to sign the Algiers Accords to resolve the Iran Hostage Crisis.  It may not have been a prisoner exchange, but even Trump did it by granting the legitimacy of a North Korean summit in exchange for three prisoners.  Frankly that's arguably giving up a hell of a lot more.  This is hardly unprecedented -- other than grouping Russia in with the North Korean and Iranian regimes.

[Mindwalker]

16 hours ago, DMC said:

Is throwing up in front of people like this how you get women?  Is that your thing?

As a woman, I resent that statement.

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

As a woman, I resent that statement.

Ok.  It was a reference to Devil's Rejects.

[Mindwalker]

Just now, DMC said:

Ok.  It was a reference to Devil's Rejects.

Oh ok. Went over my head, no idea what that is.

[mormont]

Yeah, if you're saying the Griner exchange is unprecedented or a bad deal, you need to do a little more background work.

[Tywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yeah, if you're saying the Griner exchange is unprecedented or a bad deal, you need to do a little more background work.

BUT SHE HAD DRUGSZS!!!

[Mindwalker]

Well, Keri Lake just said had she been in Griner's place, she'd have asked to sta longer instead of being exchanged for someone like that. I'm sure her morality is sincere. Is it to late to offer them Lake in exchange for someone else? I mean, she practically volunteered...

[Jace, Extat]

5 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yeah, if you're saying the Griner exchange is unprecedented or a bad deal, you need to do a little more background work.

How's this for a deal:

Our ambassador can hand Mr. Putin (or roll it to him across that table) a bullet and he can hand over everyone we name to him

Alternatively, we deliver the bullet to him at an unspecified time and place in the future and do this dance again with the next despot

???

I think my way would get way yuuger ratings, okAy?

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

And I ask again for the third time - what citation do you use to indicate that the majority of voters care about a candidate's quality?

Lower quality candidates losing more than their fellow party members.

4 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

From the above it sounds like all you believe is either you're with MAGA or you care about quality of a candidate, and that's where I disagree strongly

You can ask me what I believe—we’re having a conversation here. 

4 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

there is zero indication that people's allegiance to party is not the primary decider of how they vote regardless of what party they're voting for.

Explain Kari Lake mot becoming Governor while another republican wins the SOS of Arizona?

4 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

You used the 'trend' of Walker losing as proof,

I also pointed to the majority of Georgians overwhelming  voting for Kemp.

[Tywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Well, Keri Lake just said had she been in Griner's place, she'd have asked to sta longer instead of being exchanged for someone like that. I'm sure her morality is sincere. Is it to late to offer them Lake in exchange for someone else? I mean, she practically volunteered...

Even the NBA trade machine can't make that one happen...

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Explain Kari Lake mot becoming Governor while another republican wins the SOS of Arizona?

Er, the Republican nominee for SOS in Arizona last month was Mark Finchem, and thankfully he lost - by considerably more than Lake did.

Anyway, don't mean to speak for him but from what I can tell Kal isn't disagreeing that candidate quality mattered this cycle, he's just saying due to polarization it's very marginal.  Which is true.  But that margin clearly can be decisive.

[Fez]

6 minutes ago, DMC said:

Er, the Republican nominee for SOS in Arizona last month was Mark Finchem, and thankfully he lost - by considerably more than Lake did.

Anyway, don't mean to speak for him but from what I can tell Kal isn't disagreeing that candidate quality mattered this cycle, he's just saying due to polarization it's very marginal.  Which is true.  But that margin clearly can be decisive.

I don't even know if I'd say it's marginal. Sticking with AZ, the Republican nominee for Treasurer did win. She was the only statewide candidate in AZ not endorsed by Trump (other than maybe the Mines Inspector, who ran unopposed, not sure about him). She ran 6% better than Kari Lake and 9% better than Blake Masters while facing the exact same electorate; those are pretty decisive differences.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Fez said:

I don't even know if I'd say it's marginal. Sticking with AZ, the Republican nominee for Treasurer did win. She was the only statewide candidate in AZ not endorsed by Trump (other than maybe the Mines Inspector, who ran unopposed, not sure about him). She ran 6% better than Kari Lake and 9% better than Blake Masters while facing the exact same electorate; those are pretty decisive differences.

Sure you can argue the semantics.  Another example that doesn't get much attention because they both won is Ohio.  DeWine got 62.8% compared to Vance's 53.3.  But what Kal was saying is pretty much the same thing I have for over a decade now - nationwide and in competitive elections, both parties can count on about 45% of the vote as a floor.  It's that other 10% that's up for grabs.

[Mindwalker]

In other news, AOC is under investigation of the House ethics committee. They won't announce why until next year... you know, when it's led by Republicans... curious as to the reason for the investigation though.

[horangi]

6 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

In other news, AOC is under investigation of the House ethics committee. They won't announce why until next year... you know, when it's led by Republicans... curious as to the reason for the investigation though.

Having just completed my annual ethics training, I'd guess it would be for accepting tickets that would otherwise cost a member of the public money.  Feds are prohibited from doing so unless on official business.  MCs I believe have a bit more leniency due to their inherently political nature, but are still restricted in a lot of ways.

Edited December 8, 2022 by horangi
ETA typos