NBA - Rochambeau Playoffs

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Massholes, where are you? 

Wicked pissah!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Wicked pissah!

Tell Dante Jr the fear is part of the fun.

[DanteGabriel]

37 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Tell Dante Jr the fear is part of the fun.

Watching Jimmy Butler has not been fun.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Watching Jimmy Butler has not been fun.

Dr. Buckets to you sir. 

[BigFatCoward]

About every 10 years Charlotte gets a number 2 pick. And every time they miss out on a world class big man at number 1. Shaq, Howard, Davis, Wembamya. 

 

[Arakasi]

Boston has a weird style here which I don’t think is very good. They basically want to be all three pointers and layups. They don’t shoot anything in the middle area. So when they’re on they’re hard to defend since they have so much shooting and ball handling. However if you deny them the three and have a good mobile paint defender like Bam I don’t think that helps Boston. They just won’t create mid range shots like Butler or Jokic or James will. 

[Arakasi]

 

[Rhom]

5 hours ago, Arakasi said:

Boston has a weird style here which I don’t think is very good. They basically want to be all three pointers and layups. They don’t shoot anything in the middle area. So when they’re on they’re hard to defend since they have so much shooting and ball handling. However if you deny them the three and have a good mobile paint defender like Bam I don’t think that helps Boston. They just won’t create mid range shots like Butler or Jokic or James will. 

That's the "modern" basketball you know.  

As a primary college basketball fan, its infuriating to me to see the constant bashing of Calipari from other Kentucky fans because he won't embrace the "modern" game.  You absolutely nail the problem.  And for Boston, in a seven game series, they'll probably be on more nights than off and the 3s/layups model can and does work very efficiently.  But in college, it seems a fools errand to me where the championship is determined in a win or go home tournament that requires six straight wins.

[Arakasi]

I don’t think it’s even that good it just makes them easy to defend. Tatum used to have a mid range game but has cut it out. Also I think they have too many cooks in the kitchen. When on any play it can be Tatum, Jaylen, Smart or Brogdon running things that leads to pretty inconsistent offence. It would be better to just have a 3 and D guy who can hit corner threes and doesn’t demand the ball so Tatum can run the offense more.

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, Arakasi said:

I don’t think it’s even that good it just makes them easy to defend. Tatum used to have a mid range game but has cut it out. Also I think they have too many cooks in the kitchen. When on any play it can be Tatum, Jaylen, Smart or Brogdon running things that leads to pretty inconsistent offence. It would be better to just have a 3 and D guy who can hit corner threes and doesn’t demand the ball so Tatum can run the offense more.

It’s all analytics.  When you look at the percentage that a decent NBA shooter can hit from three, the math says it’s superior to shoot from there.  

I just don’t necessarily agree that math is the only consideration.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Funny hearing the old heads say obvious common foul and it took two seconds to tell it would be an obvious F1.

[KingintheNorth4]

Rui Hachimura is playing quality basketball right now. 

[Rhom]

18 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Funny hearing the old heads say obvious common foul and it took two seconds to tell it would be an obvious F1.

But Ty!!!  “What happened to the game I love?!!!?”

[Wilbur]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

That's the "modern" basketball you know.  

As a primary college basketball fan, its infuriating to me to see the constant bashing of Calipari from other Kentucky fans because he won't embrace the "modern" game.  You absolutely nail the problem.  And for Boston, in a seven game series, they'll probably be on more nights than off and the 3s/layups model can and does work very efficiently.  But in college, it seems a fools errand to me where the championship is determined in a win or go home tournament that requires six straight wins.

In this case, analytics aren't wrong to suggest that shooting only layups and threes is an optimal scoring strategy.  I have seen a lot of interesting shooting percentage charts from all levels up to college that show the layup as a good 50% shot, and then every shot eight feet and out at a consistent 20-25%, so you might as well shoot layups and threes and nothing in between.

However, to your point, if your team plays against a defense that is set up to defend only threes and layups, your team is going to get A LOT of nice looks from ten to twelve feet.  If you can't hit those, or you have strict instructions to only shoot layups and threes, life will be harder on you than the team than can and will shoot the wide open short jumper.  Game 1 seemed to provide the Heat with a number of opportunities from the short corner, etc. without much contention.

Interestingly for me, at the high school level, there are entire cadres of players, both boys and girls, who literally do not have the basic mechanics to shoot a jump-stop jump-shot.  Absolutely no idea.  And many have no idea how to defend it, either.  Their middle school or club teams don't even practice it.  Floaters and push-shots, yes, but the mid-range jumper, no.  And they are proud of it.

[KingintheNorth4]

I had a feeling that Jamal Murray would get hot eventually. 

[DMC]

37 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Interestingly for me, at the high school level, there are entire cadres of players, both boys and girls, who literally do not have the basic mechanics to shoot a jump-stop jump-shot.

To be fair, as an excellent shooter otherwise throughout middle and high school, the jump-stop jump-shot is much more difficult to learn/master/shoot at a high percentage unless you are an elite athlete.  Which I was not.

As for this whole talk about analytics and optimal percentages, I'd say it's important to note professional sports is all about making adjustments.  Always has been, and always will be.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

However, to your point, if your team plays against a defense that is set up to defend only threes and layups, your team is going to get A LOT of nice looks from ten to twelve feet.  If you can't hit those, or you have strict instructions to only shoot layups and threes, life will be harder on you than the team than can and will shoot the wide open short jumper.  Game 1 seemed to provide the Heat with a number of opportunities from the short corner, etc. without much contention.

I don't get why teams want to make nice midrange shooters into players who shoot from 3. It's okay to have that skillset if you're good at it. What you want to nuke is the person who shoots volume from there at a low percentage. 

27 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

I had a feeling that Jamal Murray would get hot eventually. 

Err what have I been saying. If he gets hot the Nuggets will win it all. 

I cannot believe the Wolves passed on him for Dunn. 

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

To be fair, as an excellent shooter otherwise throughout middle and high school, the jump-stop jump-shot is much more difficult to learn/master/shoot at a high percentage unless you are an elite athlete.  Which I was not.

As for this whole talk about analytics and optimal percentages, I'd say it's important to note professional sports is all about making adjustments.  Always has been, and always will be.

So true, both ideas.

To the jump shot question, though, even though it isn't a shot that everyone can master, what I have been increasingly frustrated by are the players who catch or dribble to mid-range positions, are completely open, and proceed to abandon that position.

I am old, so when I see a player inside the elbow, wide open, with the ball in their hands, I expect them to shoot the damn ball, not dribble AWAY from the basket.  These are kids, so I can't express my true feelings, but it is a serious health danger for me when this happens at this point.  I no longer want to deal with boys, especially, who respond to the coaches with disdain when we point out that such was a wasted opportunity.

No team made up of 12 DeMar DeRozans can ever win a championship, I realize this.  But I think that the Celtics Game 1 shot chart above is emblematic of a failure to understand that some mid-range work is useful, if only to challenge the defense and make them work a little harder in the playoffs.  Surely a team with a three-level offense ought to win at a higher rate than one with only a two-level offense, ceteris parabis.  It will be interesting to see if the Celtics, who are just as enjoyable to watch as the Heat otherwise, can overcome their lack of dimensionality to win this series.

[Rhom]

Thats some good company…

[Ramsay B.]

Butler schooling Grant after that little exchange.