Karstark to the NW

[Leonardo Abreu]

Is there any consideration on why Robb had not even thought of the option of making Rickard Karstark take the black instead of executing him? The only options discussed in the meeting were death or pardon, while perhaps the NW would be a nice solution.

[James Steller]

34 minutes ago, Leonardo Abreu said:

Is there any consideration on why Robb had not even thought of the option of making Rickard Karstark take the black instead of executing him? The only options discussed in the meeting were death or pardon, while perhaps the NW would be a nice solution.

Presumably it would have been very difficult to send him to the Wall in the middle of a war zone.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Because plot. 

[SeanF]

Karstark had executed prisoners, to whom his king and commander had granted succour.  He had also murdered Tully soldiers.

He was a traitor, murderer, and mutineer.

Death was the only fitting punishment.

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Karstark had executed prisoners, to whom his king and commander had granted succour.  He had also murdered Tully soldiers.

He was a traitor, murderer, and mutineer.

Death was the only fitting punishment.

Plus Karstark might have been intercepted and freed by his men before he reached the Wall

[SeanF]

38 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Plus Karstark might have been intercepted and freed by his men before he reached the Wall

That, too.

[Leonardo Abreu]

I agree to these reasons, but I ask why it hasn’t even been considered, and discussed these reasons and eventually dismissed. They were evaluating between executing him (losing the Kartasrk men loyalty in the process, with no real effect in satisfying the Lannisters, as the Blackfish noted) or keeping him hostage, or pardoning (both options that would be much more lenient in the treason count). Of course, maybe only Robb would think to suggest that (Edmure, Blackfish and Cat being southrons), but we have precedent to taking the black being at least considered as punishment for treason (as they expected would happen with Ned).

As of being rescued on the way, I would think if it come to him having been offered to the black, if he accepted he as a northman Rickard would honor it and not atempt to escape.

[James Steller]

3 hours ago, Leonardo Abreu said:

 

As of being rescued on the way, I would think if it come to him having been offered to the black, if he accepted he as a northman Rickard would honor it and not atempt to escape.

Assuming Karstark accepted it. Which he wouldn’t do.

[Hugorfonics]

Karstsark didn't just kill two kids, right, he killed Robbs honor. So the guy demanding satisfaction isn't Papa Lannister or even the State, but Robbs honor, so the punishment must be loud and explosive. In other words, Edd fetch a block.

The reality is criminals and traitors are rarely sent to the wall do die in promiscuity but are more often then not used as a prop for politics, where they can actually achieve something

.

Varys sighed. "They have surely earned death, Your Grace, none can deny it. And yet, perhaps we might be wiser to send them to the Night's Watch. We have had disturbing messages from the Wall of late. Of wildlings astir . . ."

"Wildlings, krakens, and dragons." Mace Tyrell chuckled. "Why, is there anyone not stirring?"

Lord Tywin ignored that. "The deserters serve us best as a lesson. Break their knees with hammers. They will not run again. Nor will any man who sees them begging in the streets."

.

 

Although it's not impossible to imagine a scenario where this goes down. Fun to think about, he almost assuredly will sweep the election and become LC instead of Jon. How would he have handled Jon's situations? Its pure conjecture but I can't imagine him doing well by Alys, nor the wildlings either. But who knows?

[James Arryn]

I think it would have been a much better solution in peacetime, but a commander in the field…to say nothing of a newly crowned monarch…seriously risks losing control if he responds to open defiance with half measures. Kind of a devil’s choice, really, and to be fair Robb seemed to understand that.

Edited May 16, 2023 by James Arryn

[sifth]

Had it been peace time, sure. However in the middle of of a war, where the North is blocked off, not so much.

Plus Karstark already sent all of his men away at that point, so Robb would have lost his army regardless.

[Moiraine Sedai]

17 hours ago, Leonardo Abreu said:

Is there any consideration on why Robb had not even thought of the option of making Rickard Karstark take the black instead of executing him? The only options discussed in the meeting were death or pardon, while perhaps the NW would be a nice solution.

Really bad decision there. Robb had a lot of options and chose the worst. Shows how completely unfit Robb was. 

[The hairy bear]

17 hours ago, SeanF said:

He was a traitor, murderer, and mutineer.

Death was the only fitting punishment.

During the Judgement of the Wolf, at the end of the Dance, Ser Perkin the Flea and several other men were allowed to take the black after being found guilty of treason and regicide.

Bloodraven was also allowed to take the black after murdering an envoy that had been granted protection by the crown, which it would seem to be a crime more or less as dishonorable as Rickard's.

IMHO, I'd say that Rickard didn't end at the wall because he didn't ask to. In the precedents that we have seen, it's the convicted who pleads for her sentence to be commuted. Karstark didn't do it. Either for pride, because he didn't want to admit any crime, because he didn't think Robb would have to guts to go through it, or he just didn't care dying.

[James Arryn]

11 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

During the Judgement of the Wolf, at the end of the Dance, Ser Perkin the Flea and several other men were allowed to take the black after being found guilty of treason and regicide.

Bloodraven was also allowed to take the black after murdering an envoy that had been granted protection by the crown, which it would seem to be a crime more or less as dishonorable as Rickard's.

IMHO, I'd say that Rickard didn't end at the wall because he didn't ask to. In the precedents that we have seen, it's the convicted who pleads for her sentence to be commuted. Karstark didn't do it. Either for pride, because he didn't want to admit any crime, because he didn't think Robb would have to guts to go through it, or he just didn't care dying.

Good points, though I think we’ve seen how the idea can still come from the crown, ie a suggestion that that would be likely to be accepted if asked for via intermediaries, but be framed to officially look like the crown agreeing/being merciful. In fact that’s what happens with Ned, until it doesn’t. 

[SeanF]

51 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

During the Judgement of the Wolf, at the end of the Dance, Ser Perkin the Flea and several other men were allowed to take the black after being found guilty of treason and regicide.

Bloodraven was also allowed to take the black after murdering an envoy that had been granted protection by the crown, which it would seem to be a crime more or less as dishonorable as Rickard's.

IMHO, I'd say that Rickard didn't end at the wall because he didn't ask to. In the precedents that we have seen, it's the convicted who pleads for her sentence to be commuted. Karstark didn't do it. Either for pride, because he didn't want to admit any crime, because he didn't think Robb would have to guts to go through it, or he just didn't care dying.

Agreed.  Anyone who begs to be sent to the Wall, or who takes the offer, as an alternative to execution, is acknowledging that he is a criminal who deserves death, and who will be executed if he deserts.

Karstark would never have done that.

 

[Hugorfonics]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Agreed.  Anyone who begs to be sent to the Wall, or who takes the offer, as an alternative to execution, is acknowledging that he is a criminal who deserves death, and who will be executed if he deserts.

Karstark would never have done that.

Yea the job is not to besmirch the name Karstarks but to clear the name Stark.

It's still something of a half measure, a half sentence but a half pardon. Like Bloodraven being sent to the wall with a private army so he can be elected leader and use the LC powers to have sex with a tree or whatever he did, point being it's sus. Anything less then a decapitated Karstark is sus.

And of course he would have. Like Janos, or everybody else who ever went to the wall.