“King Robert with teats”

[Hugorfonics]

44 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I give credit where credit is due.  I just don't believe Cersei deserves much credit.  Her venality has been accompanied by astonishingly good luck.  Until now.

Everyone relays on luck and other people but for the most part, I don't be against the numbers. And I agree that like Tyrion and Jon were basically gift wrapped but Ned and Robert were defeated in a well thought out manner. It wasn't hard but it was still Cersei.

46 minutes ago, Nevets said:

For what it's worth, I think Margaery is the younger more beautiful [queen].  Cersei believes she's the one, and is attacking her to try and prevent the prophecy from coming true.  

Margaery will therefore take her down in self-defense, therefore fulfilling the prophecy.  It's self-fulfilling.  Margaery has already taken Joffrey and Tommen from her, through assassination and affection, respectively.  Her children and her power are, I believe, what she holds dearest.

But Marge didn't take Joff, right that was Sansa. And she married Tommen but they still live at moms house so, I wouldnt say she took him. But I agree she loves her children and she loves her iron throne.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

19 hours ago, sifth said:

I recall Robert being a lot friendlier.

At least if he you didn’t have teats. He’d be a bit pigheaded if ya were a woman

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Shes not as good as she think she is sure. But, strike gold once that's luck. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is noteworthy. But after the fourth, that's a prospector. 

"My father loved all his employees, but he especially loved the ones who ate shit without him knowing"

Pycelle coulda, shoulda, totally did not save JonA thanks to his loyalty to Cersei

My giant of a Lannister, and the crowd goes fucking wild. Like JonA, the hands of fate brought about their doom, but boy did Cersei twist that knife. (And for sure, Imps still around which is like, thanks Jaime. Oh what a betrayal! And then he killed their dad, I'm like scared for the kingslayer if she ever finds out)

She's married to the fella, she had all the time in the world. A tourny or a hunt are noteworthy events but I'd hardly call them a rarity. It's more like what time isn't it advised to kill Robert.

Yea he like kinda begged to get his head chopped off. Which like, I understand why you don't think that's a huge deal, she ripped a piece of paper. Marvelous. And yet, just look at the track record, she's undefeated. So yes we can make fun of Ned and his suicidal tendencies but we should still give respect where respect is due

Aegons a joke, dudes gonna have like three more pages of screen time, the Martell's on the other hand will probably have just as much luck as the Tyrells did at defeating Cersei. Euron and Dany seem tough, but again so is Cersei.

(I don't think she's like omnipotent or anything, just greater then these lesser beasts. But I'm sure the younger more beautiful Sansa will come and take everything she holds dear, so it'll be a hoot!)

fAegon is going to push her from King’s Landing, unless he dies in the Stormlands, he has next to no opposition in taking KL. She’ll have to flee to Casterly Rock, possibly after burning KL with Wildfire. 
 

And yes, she, and especially Tywin got extremely lucky in WOTFK and the prelude. Robert survives her moronic assassination attempt, she and her kids die. Tywin has to fight off the realm. Tywin gets trapped by Robb, Stannis takes KL, and Cersei and her kids die. Renly and Stannis come to an accord, Tywin gets steamrolled.

[Hugorfonics]

8 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

At least if he you didn’t have teats. He’d be a bit pigheaded if ya were a woman

Yea but so is Cersei lol. 

Roberts definitely nicer, idk about a whole lot though. He's definitely mean, sucker punching his wife and kid like, wtf? 

5 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

fAegon is going to push her from King’s Landing, unless he dies in the Stormlands, he has next to no opposition in taking KL. She’ll have to flee to Casterly Rock, possibly after burning KL with Wildfire. 

Yeah, I don't see it. Tyrells entire force is in the south ready to pounce on Young Griff. I look at Aegon like Robb, he's more of an idea. A martyr to remind people who's name you truly love. (It's not Lannister)

10 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

And yes, she, and especially Tywin got extremely lucky in WOTFK and the prelude.

"In my experience theres no such thing as luck."

Who wasn't lucky?

12 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Robert survives her moronic assassination attempt

Ok so is this like fandom lore now? I missed the memo.

Dudes mixing 151 with his breakfast, surrounded by Cerseis creatures and totally at her whim in private and public matters. It's a when not an if.

15 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

she and her kids die

Only asshole idiots like Ned and Stannis think Robert would really kill his own children.

If Robert somehow magically survived and woke up to the truths and dangers, I really don't see him killing the kids. 

16 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Tywin has to fight off the realm. Tywin gets trapped by Robb,

But he didn't. Twyin did fight off the realm (they mostly sat on their hands) and threw, if you'd like to call it luck, he was not trapped by Robb.

18 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Stannis takes KL, and Cersei and her kids die.

Except Tyrion beat him.

18 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Renly and Stannis come to an accord

But they won't. Right, like if Dany and Cersei come to an accord... Would never fucking happen because it goes against the core foundations of their character. Was it lucky for Cersei that Roberts brothers are idiots? I suppose you could frame it like that.

20 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Tywin gets steamrolled.

Did he make it out by the skin of his teeth? Sure. Did Aegon the Dragon? Sure. And Aegon never would have gone anywhere if he didn't have his two sisters like Tywin wouldn't have done anything without Cersei or Tyrion. But, what's the difference? They won 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

21 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea but so is Cersei lol. 

Roberts definitely nicer, idk about a whole lot though. He's definitely mean, sucker punching his wife and kid like, wtf? 

Yeah, I don't see it. Tyrells entire force is in the south ready to pounce on Young Griff. I look at Aegon like Robb, he's more of an idea. A martyr to remind people who's name you truly love. (It's not Lannister)

"In my experience theres no such thing as luck."

Who wasn't lucky?

Ok so is this like fandom lore now? I missed the memo.

Dudes mixing 151 with his breakfast, surrounded by Cerseis creatures and totally at her whim in private and public matters. It's a when not an if.

Only asshole idiots like Ned and Stannis think Robert would really kill his own children.

If Robert somehow magically survived and woke up to the truths and dangers, I really don't see him killing the kids. 

But he didn't. Twyin did fight off the realm (they mostly sat on their hands) and threw, if you'd like to call it luck, he was not trapped by Robb.

Except Tyrion beat him.

But they won't. Right, like if Dany and Cersei come to an accord... Would never fucking happen because it goes against the core foundations of their character. Was it lucky for Cersei that Roberts brothers are idiots? I suppose you could frame it like that.

Did he make it out by the skin of his teeth? Sure. Did Aegon the Dragon? Sure. And Aegon never would have gone anywhere if he didn't have his two sisters like Tywin wouldn't have done anything without Cersei or Tyrion. But, what's the difference? They won 

Tyrion didn’t beat him, if Tywin hadn’t shown up, Stannis would’ve won

[Hugorfonics]

6 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Tyrion didn’t beat him, if Tywin hadn’t shown up, Stannis would’ve won

Stannis' entire army was on the other side of the blackwater with the entire bay in flames and no way across. No gates were breeched and the Red Keep was yet to be scratched. 

Not just 2 or 3 KG or Bronn as well survived but enough soldiers under Tyrion fought with Stannis that it took the entire day to dub all the victors knights.

Quote

"Weddings have become more perilous than battles, it would seem. Who was the poisoner? Is it known?"

"His uncle, it's said. The Imp."

Stannis ground his teeth. "A dangerous man. I learned that on the Blackwater.

Garlen and his father and Tywin hastened the end of the battle, but since the chain was raised Stannis' defeat was as well. Which is why the auxiliary of greedy ass Saan stayed back the entire battle, he saw Tyrions play for it was. Decisive.

[frenin]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:40 PM, Hugorfonics said:

It wasn't hard but it was still Cersei.

Robert kinda? But Ned's fall is literally Petyr's doing, he's the one who goes over Cersei with Ned's plan and delivers the key goldcloaks.

 

23 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Only asshole idiots like Ned and Stannis think Robert would really kill his own children.

And Martin too...

 

23 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Stannis' entire army was on the other side of the blackwater with the entire bay in flames and no way across. No gates were breeched and the Red Keep was yet to be scratched. 

That seems show only, Tyrion's forces were falling by the time of the Rohirrim charge.

[csuszka1948]

Cersei was never competent but Maggy's prophecy was retconned to make her descent in AFFC much faster than originally planned (5 year gap).

I understand that she fell into the Faith Militant's trap and it was well executed plot-wise, but the Cersei in AGOT, ACOK or ASOS would have never sent men to kill Jon Snow or Tyrstane Martell, she understood that a degree of diplomacy is needed.

[Lee-Sensei]

On 5/28/2023 at 6:16 AM, Lord Varys said:

Cersei cannot even be remotely like Robert because she cannot go out drinking and whoring with the boys now, or can she? It is joke to compare the ability a male lord/king has to win the hearts of his subjects and the ways to win love a woman has.

There are similarities, although they are rather intentional on her. Like many an abused victim Cersei wants to try out rape herself ... and does it with Taena. That is more tragic than evil. The stress makes her drink more, but that is understandable, too. Robert is just an alcoholic for no reason, Cersei ends up drinking more wine that's good for her because she lost her son (apparently murdered by her own brother in front of her) and then also her father to that same brother.

She has a good excuse to resort to rather draconian measures. One wonders what Robb would do if Bran had murdered his son and then also put a bolt in Ned's gut. Sometimes it is good to shoot first and ask questions later.

Cersei still shoots the wrong people, of course, but she is surrounded by traitors and conspirators who want to destroy her. Her methods are correct, she just uses them against the wrong people.

Nope, Robert is much worse. Viserys I only problem is the succession issue - Robert was a spendthrift who not only emptied a full treasury but indebted the Crown to multiple (foreign) creditors. Robert also blatantly cultivated factionalism to the highest degree at his court. He put both his brothers into positions where they could easily become pretenders for the throne, he did nothing to check the ambitions of his wife and his wife's family ... and he gave the Realm a Hand who was totally at odds with his wife. It was a recipe for disaster. Viserys did nothing of this sort.

In addition he did nothing to heal the festering wounds that were left both after his own rebellion as well as the Greyjoy Rebellion. Targaryens in exile, their loyalists in Westeros and the Ironborn continued to sharpen their knives while he was looking the other way.

Robert is like a paper shield hiding the rot of a kingdom that's about to disintegrate completely.

Wasn't Viserys I also a spendthrift? Robert didn't cultivate factionalism at all. Yes. He gave his brothers lands and titles, which wouldn't have been a problem, if his wife hadn't defrauded him. The Hightowers amassed great power under Viserys I. He had Theon hostage and the Ironborn was under wraps as long as he lived, which would have been a long time since he was only about 36 when he died. His wife murdered hm.

[SeanF]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:12 PM, frenin said:

Robert kinda? But Ned's fall is literally Petyr's doing, he's the one who goes over Cersei with Ned's plan and delivers the key goldcloaks.

 

And Martin too...

 

That seems show only, Tyrion's forces were falling by the time of the Rohirrim charge.

Understandably enough, there’s a reluctance to believe that the protagonists of this story would kill children.

But, it’s there in the text.

[Lee-Sensei]

18 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Understandably enough, there’s a reluctance to believe that the protagonists of this story would kill children.

But, it’s there in the text.

Did he say he'd have 100% done it? That doesn't sound like him. In hypotheticals he usually leaves it open.

[SeanF]

43 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Did he say he'd have 100% done it? That doesn't sound like him. In hypotheticals he usually leaves it open.

Ned is convinced he’d do it (obviously, that’s why he keeps Jon’s identity a secret).

[Lee-Sensei]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Ned is convinced he’d do it (obviously, that’s why he keeps Jon’s identity a secret).

Maybe. Ned sees it as a possibility, but I thought people were saying that Robert would have definitely done it 100%. The way I'd always read it, there was an open question about it. I'm not saying it's impossible though. The potential was there.

[Alester Florent]

Robert on his worst day was a better ruler than Cersei has managed to be yet.

[BalerionTheCat]

Robert had his faults. Particularly with women. But he was weak while Cersei is strong minded. I don't think he did all that for power. But Aerys gave him no choice. He wasn't positively enjoying killing people. Cersei does! They are very very different. She is all the worst Targaryens packed in one person ... with tits.

[SaffronLady]

18 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

But he was weak while Cersei is strong minded.

Less conniving and maliciously ambitious is not weak.

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

Less conniving and maliciously ambitious is not weak.

Desert his duty and go to hunt while everyone around him is quarrelling is weak for me. Not supporting Ned after he went to Winterfell to fetch him is weak. He was constantly fleeing from his troubles. Coward if you prefer.

[Alester Florent]

31 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Desert his duty and go to hunt while everyone around him is quarrelling is weak for me. Not supporting Ned after he went to Winterfell to fetch him is weak. He was constantly fleeing from his troubles. Coward if you prefer.

Robert in reappointing Ned was as decisive and "strong" as we'd seen him. He made the call, laid down the law, and then got out of the way, leaving Ned to clear up his own mess - and probably also knowing that if he stuck around, Cersei would try to nag him into changing his mind. I don't think it was an inherently unreasonable call. 

Not his fault that, largely coincidentally, Tywin chose that moment to invade the Riverlands, and Ned both discovered the incest and decided to tell Cersei about it.

[sifth]

Robert made many mistakes and was an alcoholic. That being said he was never conned by a pirate into making him a fleet and have a possibly headless zombie monster join the kingsguard. Two of the dumbest political moves ever made in the series, lol

 

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

knowing that if he stuck around, Cersei would try to nag him into changing his mind

Sure. Utterly defeated by Cersei. And hopping Ned would solve his problem for him. Poor Ned. Not a chance in this viper's Nest. I would add betrayer of friend to the list.

Maybe Robert was something more than a brutal warrior at some point in the past. But what was left of him was a drunkard without a spine. He said he didn't want the throne. I believe him. Power had destroyed him. He was fleeing all opportunities to exercise it. He was enjoying it not a bit.

Edited August 27, 2023 by BalerionTheCat