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US Politics: Hell Yes THEY Were Trying to Overthrow the Government

Zorral

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Mindwalker Council Member

Mindwalker

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@Varysblackfyre321 TYT has been on a... well, "centrist" is putting it mildly, in some respects... course. Wrt homelessness, crime, and now trans issues. And I've never been impressed with Burgis, although I really tried because he's an old friend of Sam Seder.

If you want to know who Kasparian is right now, I strongly recommend watching the recent "Adam and Stitch" (?) show with her as a guest. Seriously.

My highlight is probably her comment on Rittenhouse.

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Zorral Council Member

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Never say these thugs aren't fascists and nazis -- as well as thugs and gangsters because, of course underneath, that's what all authoritarians are, who insist laws and rules do not apply to them because they have the force and the might to make it so, and this is why they must be brought to justice. Rubin has another piece that lays it all out clearly and specifically.

Fani Willis puts violence front and center

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"The indictment works to refocus our attention on the mob Trump and Giuliani allegedly tried to incite, to the threats the MAGA horde lobbed toward election officials and others, and to the gripping testimony from Freeman and her daughter, Wandrea ArShaye “Shaye” Moss, at the House Jan. 6 hearings. From everything we’ve seen, these Georgians’ lives were made a living hell."

Without the Georgia case and without Trump identified as the head of the alleged criminal enterprise, there would be no justice for those victims, no accounting for the use of mob violence to corrupt the democratic process."

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/17/willis-georgia-indictment-violence/

 
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Special counsel Jack Smith, for practical and legal reasons, chose not to indict defeated former president Donald Trump on charges of instigating the violence on Jan. 6, 2021. Smith wants a solid, slimmed-down case without First Amendment complications, which could arise in focusing on Trump’s “Stop the Steal” speech on the Ellipse.

Instead, Smith’s indictment portrays Trump as opportunistically taking advantage of the angry mob. That left many democracy defenders unsettled. Hasn’t violence always been part of Trump’s playbook, and wasn’t Trump egging on the violent mob?

Fortunately, Fulton County, Ga., District Attorney Fani Willis puts the question of Trump’s responsibility for mob violence front and center. ....

Ruth Ben-Ghiat, author of “Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present” and an expert on fascism, told Insider that Trump resorted to inciting the crowd to violence when his other schemes failed “because he truly believes that violence is a way you can change history.” She added, “The thing about autocrats today is that they’re all corrupt, but they’re also violent. They use all of these tools at the same time. So, we can’t isolate one and say that Jan. 6 was just about this or just about that. It was everything. It was a process of months and it culminated in violence.”

The element of thuggishness reflective of authoritarians throughout time and around the globe should not be whitewashed in Trump’s prosecution. It’s easy to make Trump’s alleged attempted coup, run mostly by lawyers and focused on memos distorting and misrepresenting constitutional principles, seem sophisticated, legalistic and without human victims. But, at bottom, the alleged plot rested on the threat of violence both in D.C. and in Georgia. ....

O yes, then last night, Roger Stone caught red tongued on video plotting BEFORE THE ELECTION WAS CALLED how to steal it.

In exclusive video obtained by "The Beat with Ari Melber," Trump adviser and ally Roger Stone is seen pushing a plot to overthrow the 2020 Election. In this report, Melber, MSNBC's Chief Legal Correspondent, breaks the exclusive news and reports on its wider context amidst several election probes and indictments

Being MSNB, the video is there.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari/watch/bombshell-maga-s-roger-stone-pushed-elector-plot-before-2020-race-was-even-called-190988869968

https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari/watch/see-trump-vet-roger-stone-pushing-elector-plot-on-tape-beat-exclusive-190982725545

For whatever reason this is not at the top of either the WaPo or NYT.

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Zorral Council Member

Zorral

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The only other spot I've run into that discusses the Stone plan being formed before the election itself, and before the election is called (not to say there aren't others beyond Heather and MSNB, but I haven't run into them and my cruise every morning through reputable sites is extensive):

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/august-16-2023?

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... If the Democrats are taking a victory lap for passing this transformative law a year ago, the second big story today showed the effort to steal the 2020 presidential election was fully formed earlier than had been established previously. That story came from MSNBC’s Ari Melber, who revealed a video taken by Danish filmmaker Christoffer Guldbrandsen of Trump ally Roger Stone plotting to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election on November 5, 2020, two days before the election was called for President Biden. 

In the video, Stone dictated to an associate a statement saying that “any legislative body may decide on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud to send electors to the Electoral College who accurately reflect the president’s legitimate victory in their state, which was illegally denied him through fraud. We must be prepared to lobby our Republican legislatures…by personal contact and by demonstrating the overwhelming will of the people in their state—in each state—that this may need to happen,” he said. 

This video, recorded while the election was not yet decided, recalls the statement of Trump ally Steve Bannon, who told a group of associates on October 31, 2020—before the election—that Trump simply planned to declare he had won, claiming that the expected wave in favor of Biden was fraudulent. “What Trump’s gonna do is just declare victory. Right? He’s gonna declare victory. But that doesn’t mean he’s a winner,” Bannon said. “He’s just gonna say he’s a winner.”

Plus more on the entwinement of authoritarian dictator fascist nazi thug gangster tactics and action and religion to force unelected takeover of the US government:

How Kanye West’s publicist, an “MMA fighter,” and a Lutheran pastor teamed up to pressure a Georgia election worker.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trevian-kutti-harrison-floyd-steve-lee-fani-willis

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.... This particular episode centers on three individuals — Rev. Stephen Lee, Harrison Floyd, and Trevian Kutti — who District Attorney Fani Willis, in the indictment, accuses of “harassment and intimidation” directed toward a local election worker, Ruby Freeman. 

TPM has extensive new reporting on the events leading up to the trio’s efforts to pressure Freeman, documenting in new detail how the key players in the alleged scheme were linked to Trump’s campaign team and allies, including the “Black Voices For Trump” organization, the “My Pillow” pitchman and prominent election denier Mike Lindell, and the vast network of attorneys who were working with the former president to challenge the election result. 

The story of how the election plot ended up on Freeman’s doorstep is a complex and winding tale involving one of the most persistent “Big Lie” conspiracy theories, the eccentric rapper-turned-Hitler enthusiast Ye, frantic 911 calls, and a chaplain who viewed himself as a first responder for “demonic births.” It all culminated in Kutti’s January 2021 visit to Freeman’s home. During that meeting, Kutti warned Freeman that she might be in unspecified danger if she did not admit to thoroughly debunked voter fraud allegations. ....

 

 

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Zorral Council Member

Zorral

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8 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

@ZorralDidn't Stone also openly float the plan on Steve Bannon's show? Someone did, I seem to remember.

So many did -- in public -- it's hard to keep track, particularly after Jan. 6.  Just as now So Many of Them are openly advocating for more violence, directed at the legal communities and those who are supporting and the systems and testifying.

So far the only one to suffer any consequences for openly threatening one of them, a black, female judge, is an alkie woman who has no self-control when she drinks -- like so many.  Nor does she have money, neither position.

 

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Zorral Council Member

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Breaking . . .

Officials Investigate Threats Against Trump Grand Jurors in Georgia
Some of the jurors’ identities have been shared on social media, with suggestions that they be harassed or made “infamous.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/us/trump-georgia-grand-jurors.html

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The Fulton County Sheriff’s Office said Thursday that it was investigating online threats against the grand jurors who voted this week to indict former President Donald J. Trump and 18 others, accusing them of conspiring to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results.

The jurors’ names are listed early in the sprawling 98-page indictment, as required in Georgia, making the state an outlier among federal and state court systems.

Now some of those jurors have had their faces, social media profiles and possible addresses and phone numbers shared on internet sites, in some cases with the suggestion that they should be harassed — though it was unclear on Thursday if anyone had followed up on those suggestions.

The county sheriff’s office said in a statement that it was aware of online threats against grand jurors and was working with other agencies to track down their origin. It did not answer inquiries about whether any jurors had reported harassment. ....

.... Soon after the indictment was released late Monday, some on social media began scrutinizing the jurors’ identities and revealing their personal details.

“I thought it only fair to share a few names from that grand jury,” one user wrote on Facebook on Wednesday, including possible addresses and phone numbers for several jurors. “I will continue to post the other jurors as I find them.”

On Truth Social, the social media platform founded by Mr. Trump — who has himself lashed out at prosecutors, judges and private citizens who have sued him — many users reposted the names. In one response to a list of several jurors, a user urged others to make them “infamous” and to “make sure they can’t walk down the street.”

Media Matters, a liberal nonprofit that monitors conservative media organizations, collected other messages posted on one online board that included threats of violence against the jurors and called the list of their names and addresses a “hit list.”

The New York Times viewed writings on nearly a dozen channels of the messaging app Telegram, where the jurors’ information was being shared. In many of those channels, claims were made regarding the race or religious background of the jurors based on their names or their politics. Several people shared posts from one apparent grand juror who supported Democrats in the past.Jon B. Gould, a lawyer and criminologist at the University of California, Irvine, said Georgia was fairly unusual in making grand jurors’ names public. It opens up the possibility that they could be harassed for their decisions, he said, especially in cases involving gangs and organized crime.

Diane Peress, a former state and federal prosecutor who teaches at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said prosecutors in New York State and the federal system took pains to keep the names of grand jurors secret. For instance, jurors are usually referred to only by number during grand jury proceedings in New York State.

One reason for the Georgia rule requiring the release of the jurors’ names, said Michael Mears, a professor at John Marshall Law School in Atlanta, is to give defense lawyers a tiny window into the proceedings — letting them check, for instance, whether any of the jurors should have been excluded because they were convicted felons or resided outside the county.

Aside from the names, procedures in Georgia are more secretive than in New York, the other state jurisdiction where Mr. Trump has been charged with crimes. New York keeps a record of grand jury proceedings and testimony, which is turned over to the defense and can be used at trial.

But in Georgia, records are not kept nor is a transcript made, Mr. Mears said, making it extremely difficult to challenge the grand jury’s decision.

 

 

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ThinkerX Council Member

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A sample of some of the more brain wrenching political questions that pop up on another site. 

Now that multiple polls are showing that Trump will beat Biden in the General Election in November 2024, should Biden start giving a yes or no answer right now on whether or not he will attend Trump's second Inauguration on January 20th, 2025?

 

 

 
What will happen next if the heavily armed Trump supporters while encamped in Mar-a-Lago manage to successfully repel or wipe out the entire brigade of the arresting team who is task to get Trump using the weapons only in their hands?
 
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Zorral Council Member

Zorral

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The latest polls seem to be saying that Biden is even ahead of racketeer defendant, and more and more even rethuglians are saying he's guilty of everything and lost in 2020 and wish he wouldn't run.  Why yes the reporting on this is reluctant even in places like the NYT, I suppose, since its the racketeer that sells and gets clicks and Biden merely saving the economy etc. just isn't juicy enough for clicks.

These indictments ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

 

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A Horse Named Stranger Council Member

A Horse Named Stranger

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17 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

A sample of some of the more brain wrenching political questions that pop up on another site. 

Now that multiple polls are showing that Trump will beat Biden in the General Election in November 2024, should Biden start giving a yes or no answer right now on whether or not he will attend Trump's second Inauguration on January 20th, 2025?

 

 

 
What will happen next if the heavily armed Trump supporters while encamped in Mar-a-Lago manage to successfully repel or wipe out the entire brigade of the arresting team who is task to get Trump using the weapons only in their hands?
 

I have so many questions there...

Will there be an official ceremony at a Georgia State Prison? And will the convicts perform instead of Ted Nugent, or will Ted perform with inmates?

 

1. Biden is not literally sending money to Ukraine but a lot of military aid, do Republicans think they can put out wildfires with unexploded artillery shells?! This is absolutely deranged.

2. They will send in Chuck Norris and the reanimated corpse of Bruce Lee. What dumb hypothetical.

3. Do conservatives know that the Wolfenstein video game series is not an accurate representation of history?

4. On behalf of the world, I think we will learn to cope without it.

5. I wasn't really aware that getting indicted in four jurisdictions within the US is part of the duties of a POTUS. Obama!!! Barry, you lazy bum, get your ass indicted ASAP.

 

Anyway, thanks for the spoiler, I think I know what to expect on another forum in the near future.

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ThinkerX Council Member

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16 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I have so many questions there...

Will there be an official ceremony at a Georgia State Prison? And will the convicts perform instead of Ted Nugent, or will Ted perform with inmates?

 

1. Biden is not literally sending money to Ukraine but a lot of military aid, do Republicans think they can put out wildfires with unexploded artillery shells?! This is absolutely deranged.

2. They will send in Chuck Norris and the reanimated corpse of Bruce Lee. What dumb hypothetical.

3. Do conservatives know that the Wolfenstein video game series is not an accurate representation of history?

4. On behalf of the world, I think we will learn to cope without it.

5. I wasn't really aware that getting indicted in four jurisdictions within the US is part of the duties of a POTUS. Obama!!! Barry, you lazy bum, get your ass indicted ASAP.

 

Anyway, thanks for the spoiler, I think I know what to expect on another forum in the near future.

Should I post more? This is merely a sample. 

Many of these questions get posted over and over despite their abundant flaws being pointed out. Others, alas, have serious fans, like the ones calling for race war or insisting that Trump is above the law. 

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A Horse Named Stranger Council Member

A Horse Named Stranger

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No thanks, like I said, on another board I have a few of those deranged homers.

I gave a sample from there over at the clmate thread (the terraforming god and his master plan).

So I'll get to enjoy some of that nonsense down the line. And there I have even put the most batshit ones on ignore (the ones posting gateway pundit bs (don't ask if you don't know it, and absolutely do not google it, it would just severely erode your remaining faith in humanity).

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Zorral Council Member

Zorral

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19 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Should I post more? This is merely a sample. 

Many of these questions get posted over and over despite their abundant flaws being pointed out. Others, alas, have serious fans, like the ones calling for race war or insisting that Trump is above the law. 

Ignore these deranged wannabe racketeer gangster thug fascists, unless they are indicted and / or convicted and / or in prison / sent to the guillotine.  Their obsession with attempts to gain attention is gross, icky and disgusting.

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Spockydog Council Member

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1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Ivana Trump? He buried his ex wife at one of his golf courses? 

Pure. Class.

Will Ivana help Donald Trump with tax breaks from beyond the grave?

When Ivana Trump, Donald Trump’s first wife, was buried last month near the first hole of Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, few immediately guessed that her grave’s location might also serve her ex-husband’s long-held tax planning purposes.

Tax code in New Jersey exempts cemetery land from all taxes, rates, and assessments – and her grave, as such, potentially has advantageous tax implications for a Trump family trust that owns the golf business, in a state where property and land taxes are notoriously high.

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Martell Spy Council Member

Martell Spy

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DeSantis debate memo urges him to defend Trump and take 'a sledge-hammer' to Ramaswamy
A memo written by leaders of a pro-DeSantis super PAC outlined the "overarching goals" for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in next week's first GOP presidential primary debate.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/desantis-debate-memo-urges-defend-trump-attack-ramaswamy-rcna100414

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Allies of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis outlined a strategy for next week's GOP presidential primary debate in a memo encouraging him to defend former President Donald Trump from attacks by rival Chris Christie and call upstart contender Vivek Ramaswamy "fake."

The two-page memo, written by leaders of the pro-DeSantis super PAC Never Back Down, was published to the website of Axiom Strategies and dated Aug. 15. Axiom founder Jeff Roe also leads the pro-DeSantis' super PAC.

“Defend Trump when Chris Christie attacks him,” the memo reads, adding a potential line for DeSantis to use on stage in Milwaukee against the former governor of New Jersey: “Trump isn’t here so let’s just leave him alone. He’s too weak to defend himself here. We’re all running against him. I don’t think we want to join forces with someone on this stage who’s auditioning for a show on MSNBC.”

 


 

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