[Book Spoilers] Wheel of Time 3: Black Ajahpaloosa

[SpaceChampion]

Acceptance is one of the themes.

[fionwe1987]

I'm midway through the episode, but had to pause to laugh at this

Spoiler

Ishy dear...

It was very meta, but it seemed to fit Lanfear. 

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[Arakasi]

Lanfear has been spot on. Tbh most of the villains have been. Ishamael is great, Padan and Vlads are both menacing and ofc Liandrin has been a revelation. With Shohreh being Elaida next season that will add another great one. Suroth has been the only non standout so far.

[Corvinus85]

Well this show keeps improving. 

Spoiler

Egwene's training was brutal and I appreciate they didn't shy away from the most insidious aspects of it. The part with Ryma Sedai was pretty good, too, both between how hard she and her warder fought, and the tragic capture at the end; and her words to Nynaeve, as well.

Rand finally has better agency. I also liked his reunion with Mat and I don't mind that they changed how Mat feels about Rand being the DR. The actor for Mat was also good in that final scene with Min.

Lan's plot finally moved, too. The appearance of so many characters all of a sudden was borderline Littlefinger jetpack but I can waive it off, as Caemlyn and Cairhien are close enough from each other. I do wonder how Siuan being in Cairhien will play out with the royal wedding and potential reveal of certain Darkfriend(s).

The only issue about all these travelling characters is what is happening with Egwene in Falme. I suppose there are some differences in the timeline, but by the finale they converge to the same point.

Still not sure about Logain teaching Rand. Should Logain be able to see Rand's channeling?

Moiraine believes she was stilled, interesting, but still unclear honestly. Especially since we don't actually know what she wrote in the letter she did complete, only in the ones she discarded.

Good scene between Lanfear and Liandrin, too. 

And some points about the the worldbuilding which I appreciated:

• Logain's game of stones, which we know it as Go, because that's what it was inspired by.
• The scene in Tel'aran'rhiod in the desert had a bit of a film grain. I hope they keep that consistency. I couldn't tell if there was a source of light, i.e. the sun, or they managed to mask it. 

 

[Underfoot]

That was a really good episode. Season keeps getting better and better! Idk how I'm going to scratch my epic fantasy itch once the season's over

[Arakasi]

It’s setting things up very nicely for Falme. Season three is going to be insane with the Tower, Tear and the wastes.

[fionwe1987]

Well, Judkins always said Egwene was his favorite character (as she is mine), and you can see that in this episode. And Madeline Madden did a great job, I thought. 

As in the books, it will be incredibly satisfying and horrifying to see Renna have the a'dam turned on her.

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“I should take you to Spray right now and cast off, but Fortune prick me if I can no tell you what you face here if you stay, and maybe even if you go with me. Listen to me, and mark what I do say.” He took another cautious look around, and still lowered his voice and chose his words carefully. “I did see a—a woman who wore a ring like that taken by the Seanchan. A pretty, slender little woman she was, with a big War—a big man with her who did look as if he did know how to use his sword. One of them must have been careless, for the Seanchan did have an ambush laid for them. The big man put six, seven soldiers on the ground before he did die himself. The—the woman. . . . Six damane they did put around her, stepping out of the alleys of a sudden. I did think she would . . . do something—you know what I mean—but. . . . I know nothing of these things. One moment she did look as if she would destroy them all, then a look of horror did come on her face, and she did scream.”

That final scene interspersing Ryma's capture and Egwene breaking was pitch perfect. All the loathing for the Seanchan the books make you feel, captured in a few tight moments. Seeing Ryma as Tuon's best damane later is going to be truly horrifying. 

I also loved that scene with Liandrin and Lanfear. The entire episode had each character have the net tighten around them. Moving the Falme scenes from early in tGH to Cairhein now... that just spices up the whole civil war thing, doesn't it? 

Definitely the best episode of the series so far. So many threads coming together nicely, just like in the books, but remixed. 

 

[karaddin]

4 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Well this show keeps improving. 

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I suppose there are some differences in the timeline, but by the finale they converge to the same point.

Yeah this is absolutely how I'm interpreting it.

Spoiler

The season probably starts roughly in sync, then Lan/Alanna etc lags behind - they cool their heels for a few days while Moiraine has already spent all the time it takes to get to Cairhien, so lets say Moiraine and Rand are +2weeks compared to the others. 

Mat and Min then leave TV around the same time Lan/Alanna etc leave her families place and, they end up meeting Siuan coming back from Caemlyn and then all head to Cairhien as well. So you get Min and Mat arriving a few days ahead of the others and they all sync back up with the travel time behind them.

The only thing that would really mess with this is that I don't remember where Alanna's family was - if that's more than a few days from the tower then it would have needed travel time there as well.

I thought this episode was great and the cruelty of the Seanchan breaking process was executed well on both the obviously horrifying but also subtle levels.

Spoiler

"I know that tree gives you comfort, so we're going to burn it down together and I'm going to make you feel good while we do it so it can eat away at you later"

 

[Gertrude]

I loved the "Ishy Dear" line as well

I recognized the place they filmed the first scene with Lan and the Forsaken temple. It's one of those places that you can get impressive views of, but then a wrong view will remind you you're in a city park next door to someone.

So Mat is cool with Rand being Dragon Reborn? I don't particularly mind if they change that detail up, but it doesn't really line up with his outlook from last season when they viewed Logain. I have no idea what the rules are for seeing weaves if you are shielded or stilled. I was going to say it would be nice to have some rules clarified, but I honestly don't care. As long as they don't obviously contradict themselves and it's clear there are rules, I don't need to know them all.

Ryma Sedai is my new favorite Aes Sedai and it's not even close.

[karaddin]

28 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Ryma Sedai is my new favorite Aes Sedai and it's not even close.

It's not ok to make me like her like that if her fate is going to be unchanged. Also really liked the detail of how she was killing them, but also that she didn't do it like that until her warder was killed.

[Poobah]

That was a very good, very powerful episode. Egwene and Renna's actresses both delivered particularly great performances. Lanfear continues to be on point and unsettling as fuck. 

I'm still holding my breath on the Moiraine plot... I don't particularly like seeing her so powerless and lost - that's not Moiraine - and I don't know what the point of all the faffing around and family drama in Cairhien is. I really hope it manages to have a decent resolution and they go with shielded not stilled sooner rather than later. 

[Corvinus85]

7 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Well, Judkins always said Egwene was his favorite character (as she is mine), and you can see that in this episode. And Madeline Madden did a great job, I thought. 

Egwene's look of horror after Renna left when she realized she broke was really good.

[Poobah]

It rather reminds me of TNG's Chains of Command with Picard's torture "there are four lights".

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Egwene's look of horror after Renna left when she realized she broke was really good.

Yes. The makeup also was excellent, so the bloodshot eyes really added to it. And the "Pour the water, Egwene" line is just haunting after that scene. 

I agree that Ryma better have a much bigger role in future seasons. For one, I really felt the actor playing her used her very little screen time to make a huge impression. But beyond that, they have all the setup they need to do a better job than the books did with how things with the Seanchan resolve. Yes, they were the human evil the characters had to work with to end the Shadow, but I've always been deeply disappointed the last books didn't engage with the absurdity and difficulty of working with the Seanchan more. It just isn't enough that the main characters are (mostly) reluctant allies who hold their noses and work with the Seanchan. 

On Mat:

Its a big change, not to have him reject Rand when he finds out he's the Dragon Reborn. But unlike the books, Mat left the Two Rivers knowing one of his friends, or he himself, could be the DR. In that light, this makes sense. That said, I expect we'll get Siuan and co Healing Mat in the next episode. I doubt he's gonna be back again in Tar Valon for that, and the link with the dagger needs to be broken sometime. And now, Mat has incentive.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ishy dear (as he shall forever be known henceforth) starts riots in Cairhein, since Siuan's arrival wrecked his and Lanfear's plan to herd Rand and Mat to Falme. Barthanes also seemed really interested in who Moiraine's was writing to, so we can presume Siuan's arrival is gonna get the Forsaken hopping mad, setting the stage for the plot to unseat her. 

Other thoughts:

-That scene with Siuan in the carriage was very well done. Initially, I though some throne ter'angreal activated or something, and I groaned at the unnecessary change, but they were little knives of Air, a callout to her book scene with Nynaeve (which went to Liandrin in the show).

-The scene with Loial was great, but the actual Treesong is not what I imagined. I hope we get a proper version, sometime.

- Logain being able to see Rand channel should not happen, per the books. But I'm fine with it. When you're gentled, you can still feel source. At least all he instructed Rand with was how to embrace the Source, so there's plenty of room for Asmodean.

-They mentioned Anaiya, who's one of the better Aes Sedai (the Blues tend to be, in the books. Even the self-centered assholes are competent, generally). Hope they do find someone plain faced for her. I'm excited to see what they'll do with her character. Merged with Lelaine, perhaps? She's gonna be meeting Egwene and training her with Dreaming, which they alluded to in this episode, when Egwene is sleeping and pacing in her room for days after she meets Rand in the Dream. 

I must say, its nice to have so many breadcrumbs to speculate on, knowing that they can actually land some of this. 

 

[fionwe1987]

58 minutes ago, Poobah said:

It rather reminds me of TNG's Chains of Command with Picard's torture "there are four lights".

THANK you. I was thinking this reminded me of something. Yes, this felt like a very comparable scenario, and given the larger implications of the Seanchan to this world and story, and the fact that this isn't a story of the week format, makes this hit harder. 

I'm glad they leaned into the psychological horror of the a'dam. So much of what Egwene becomes is shaped by this. I'm genuinely excited to see what they do with her character now.

[SpaceChampion]

1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said:

Its a big change, not to have him reject Rand when he finds out he's the Dragon Reborn

A welcome change.  Mat did make that wanking gesture when he said the name Dragon Reborn, so Mat mocking all his friends (and enemies too I hope) is going to be far more entertaining.

The Ishy Dear thing might be a clue it wasn't the real Ishy, just part of the dream she controlled.

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

A welcome change.  Mat did make that wanking gesture when he said the name Dragon Reborn, so Mat mocking all his friends (and enemies too I hope) is going to be far more entertaining.

Yes, but that let's Mat's character off too easy, no? That he walks away is his thing, in the books. That his fear of the Power drives it is also fairly central to the character.

That said, both the early revelation of the DR being from Two Rivers, and his staying back at the Ways, both make it impossible for that aspect to be on screen, so I'm not too miffed.

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

The Ishy Dear thing might be a clue it wasn't the real Ishy, just part of the dream she controlled.

Good point! Though it could have been the real Ishy, too, since they are more or less working together on the "get Rand to Falme" part. 

[Cas Stark]

I thought this was the best episode of the series so far. 

[karaddin]

I thought the usefulness of Min telling Mat about the vision is that if it doesn't happen at Falme it's going to be a justification for Mat to try and distance himself from Rand for as long as it hasn't happened which doesn't undermine Mat for the audience.

It makes me wonder if the show is going to have Ishy somehow be able to give her a false vision as that would mean it just hangs around with the fear never going away for Mat.

Either way I remain convinced it won't play out as Mat legit betraying and trying to hurt Rand.

[IlyaP]

21 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Either way I remain convinced it won't play out as Mat legit betraying and trying to hurt Rand.

Already, we can hear the distant sound of lifelong fans rioting, shouting for blood, as they knuckle their foreheads and curse the Dark One himself...