Arakasi Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I think it’s a matter of know your audience and know the time. I don’t think Mats intent there was to have one of the two WoT writers alienate his viewers. He’s probably going to have to address that in his next stream to smooth it over. At the end of the day even I don’t think they got everything right. But I think Covid and eight episode seasons are a large issue with some things that have happened. At the end of the day I just like it far more than I dislike it (and really compare it to the other fantasyish shows out there or marvel or Star Wars and it’s way better than them) and I enjoy talking about it. I don’t care for that attitude and I doubt mats viewers did either given the reactions I read tonight in chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I didn't have a problem with Sanderson having the critiques he had, but he was overly aggressive and didn't let the others actually react. He was talking aobut how he disliked something as it was happening. Not cool. He can have whatever opinion he wants, that's fine. I don't disagree with all of them even, but what happened here was not fun to watch. I also started wondering about his comment about Mat's make-shift ashandari being the one he uses for the whole show. He was bitching about that quite a bit and I was like - oh. S3 is filming and he consults on the scripts so should I be worried? No. He confirmed that he doesn't know, so I thought him dooming over that was uncalled for as well. It does raise the question of how much consulting he's doing? Poobah and Arakasi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 If he acts like this with the writers I’m guessing not very much. No one likes to be talked over. I know this viewing dropped my opinion of him. Also surprised that he was so convinced Ishamael was dead for good. He did read the series right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Arakasi said: I think it’s a matter of know your audience and know the time. I don’t think Mats intent there was to have one of the two WoT writers alienate his viewers. He’s probably going to have to address that in his next stream to smooth it over. You may be right. Did his viewers feel alienated that the co-author of The Wheel of Time series had legitimate criticisms? What did they expect? Sanderson to be the silent guest while two random people said "amazing!" occasionally? 30 minutes ago, Arakasi said: At the end of the day even I don’t think they got everything right. But I think Covid and eight episode seasons are a large issue with some things that have happened. At the end of the day I just like it far more than I dislike it (and really compare it to the other fantasyish shows out there or marvel or Star Wars and it’s way better than them) and I enjoy talking about it. I don’t care for that attitude and I doubt mats viewers did either given the reactions I read tonight in chat. It's perfectly fine that you're enjoying the show. I'm glad you do. I enjoy it too (for different reasons than you do, admittedly). By all accounts, Sanderson also enjoys it, and thinks (unlike me) the show does more right than wrong. But it's also fine to have criticisms too. And I'm glad Sanderson had a forum to speak his criticisms. I can't find it in me to care that this may have interrupted the reactions of two random people in the process. I can't imagine they cared either because they signed up to do this with Sanderson. I have to say, I think you two may be nitpicking. (I tease, I tease.) Edited October 13, 2023 by IFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Doesn't sound enjoyable enough to be worth the investment of 90minutes of my time however, thanks for warning me off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 He has his own forum. I doubt they’ll invite him back after this as divisive as this seems to have been to the community. You could see it that Mat was trying to smooth things over and just kept being talked over and told he was wrong. I was in that live chat and it was very very hostile. Not at all with the MO that the dusty wheel usually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It was probably good for the YouTube algorithms though. I doubt Mat cares too much about that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Sanderson has made the following comments regarding the session: Quote Don't feel too bad for Matt. He asked me to do this, and knew what he was getting. I even suggested to him that he watch without me and I come in for a rewatch. This is what he wanted from me--he pitched it, asked me for it, and chose (against my suggestion) to not watch until I was there. And Quote Yeah. I can totally see that. In hind sight, I should have pushed him harder to watch first without me. He knew he was going to get author commentary from me. But I don't think he knew how many people specifically were waiting to see his reactions. He is so humble I don't think he realizes people legit appreciate his view. I didn't mean to spoil it for him, but I was under the impression that I was here for behind the scenes commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Sadly that really doesn’t matter. Turns out when you enjoy something and someone comes in and says it sucks in the way he said it well you tend to get defensive. And when it’s talking over your favorite guy well it’s doubly so. Many of the people in chat felt that Brandon was being disrespectful to Mat. It’s not the criticism I have an issue with it was the presentation. Did Mat sign up for seventy minutes of being talked over that divides his community? I think not. I guess it always pays to be careful for what you ask for. edit: I recall watching Brandon with Mat back in season one and I recall him being far more positive. And in no way was season one better than two. Yet you watch this tonight and you’d think that. I think he missed the mark here. Also add that this episode in public ratings rates the highest in the series a good deal ahead of e6. So I think Brandon’s sentiments are in the minority here. Edited October 13, 2023 by Arakasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 This is a guy who, according to a friend who listens to Sanderson's podcast, didn't like Rogue One and didn't understand Glass Onion - I don't think he can be trusted as a media critic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Poobah said: This is a guy who, according to a friend who listens to Sanderson's podcast, didn't like Rogue One and didn't understand Glass Onion - I don't think he can be trusted as a media critic. Eh, I generally have nothing positive to say about Sanderson's contributions as an artist or critic, but it's totally legit to not like Rogue One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Sanderson didn't write a single word of the books the show is currently adapted. He is not a screenwriter either. So his opinion doesn't carry any more weight than that of any other fan of the series to me. And it's not like he's some sort of expert on the lore, his WoT books are full of continuity errors despite him having two assistants whose main job was to prevent this, as well as Harriet for his editor. Someone on Reddit said yesterday that after Harriet Sanderson knows best what Jordan would have wanted in a TV adaptation which was a downright absurd claim to me. Sanderson never met or talked to Jordan. Corvinus85, Poobah and Arakasi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 All right. Co-author Brandon Sanderson, whose conclusion on goodreads received 4.4, 4.5, and 4.6 scores (which even with the grade inflation of goodreads is high, and these are among the highest rated WoT books), and who is one of the most popular fantasy authors living, is clearly a hack and not a true fan, especially since he didn't like The Glass Onion or Rogue One. No. The people here are the true loremasters who know what a good story is, and Rafe Judkins, with his imdb rated show of 7.1, and its fairly mediocre viewership numbers, is the true talent who understands good storytelling. Also, it's essential we get random fan Mat's unadulterated reaction (regardless of his own desires). That's what is truly interesting, not the opinion of the co-author, who the showrunners themselves consulted (and ignored, apparently, because they clearly have a handle on things). I'm afraid I will respectfully disagree with the sentiment here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, IFR said: is clearly a hack and not a true fan, The problem is that I think he IS a true fan and can't separate theo show and the book - which have to be very different animals for many reasons. He mentioned that he was disappointed to not get the sky battle, which was one of his favorite moments from the books. He also argued that Rand beating a blademaster (Turok) in the books was totally earned because Lan trained him for a few months. That's when I realized we don't view the books in the same light at all. Another thing he mentioned that I've been mulling over is that in the first drafts the show didn't have the Heroes of the Horn appearing. He said he fought hard for it. One of his main critiques was that the finale wasn't built up enough to have earned a lot of the moments, and yet he pushed to include a storyline beat that they hadn't built up through the rest of the season. I wonder how early those drafts were (like pre-covid and Barney leaving?) or what exactly he expected? To re-write a good chunk of the season to build up the horn? I had some serious doubts that they would include the Horn initially because it is - let's face it - a rather cheesy fantasy moment. Like the Battle in the Sky over Falme. I think you can see where my tastes lie in a fantasy book. :p When I say don't include the Horn, I mean here. I think you could have introduced Birgitte and the concept of the Heroes in TAR and then have the horn blown at the end. Arakasi and Poobah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I feel a lot of sympathy for Sanderson, for some reason... Corvinus85, Gaston de Foix, Arakasi and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ran said: I feel a lot of sympathy for Sanderson, for some reason... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I find it really weird that you'd do this without having watched any of the rest of the season. I know with his focus on the written word he probably feels like he got enough from the scripts, but even if that was the final version of the scripts they just don't convey everything that comes across in the visual medium. I'm with Gertrude on the sword fight (and not just because it's silly, but because Rand risking everything for no reason in a fight he could win without risk is weirdly selfish) and the sky fight so probably not surprising I'm less sympathetic to those complaints lol. I saw that his final conclusions were still of support for the show but saying that they need 12 eps a season. If that's the take away that gets traction I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I’m just a show watcher and really enjoyed both seasons. Still confused over one thing - if the ultimate objective of the Forsaken is to kill/turn the dragon reborn to the dark side, will this help the dark one return to this world which I’m guessing is the actual final outcome they want ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, Gertrude said: When I say don't include the Horn, I mean here. I think you could have introduced Birgitte and the concept of the Heroes in TAR and then have the horn blown at the end. Character wise the scene did help Mat put him on the path to where he'll get all those old memories. So I still think the blowing of the Horn was needed just for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: I’m just a show watcher and really enjoyed both seasons. Still confused over one thing - if the ultimate objective of the Forsaken is to kill/turn the dragon reborn to the dark side, will this help the dark one return to this world which I’m guessing is the actual final outcome they want ? In the books the Dark One wishes to Spoiler Destroy the wheel/the pattern/reality and remake it in his image. Ishamael has knowledge of his prior lives and merely wants to end the endless cycle of suffering that he experiences, so is everyone on board with the dark one destroying everything including him. This is what that conversation between him and Lanfear earlier in the season was getting at. The DO only talks to him because he's the only true believer. Each of the other Forsaken have their own reason for turning, Lanfears is as per the show. Another one wanted to be a rock star (actually a famous harpist but rock star sounds slightly more relatable) and apparently just didn't have "it" on his own, so it's deal with the devil style. Several of the men just had massive inferiority complexes with Lews Therin who I don't think thought about them much at all. So watch and find out for what the show gives them, but suffice to say aside from Ishamael and Lanfear they're pretty short sighted with the whole thing, and Lanfear just follows her own agenda with no actual loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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