Craving Peaches Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Still no aid being allowed through, no one is allowed out either, even people who don't live in Gaza... Aid convoy is ready to go on the Egyptian side. My fear is that they won't let anything in or out until they have completed their military operation, by which time so many people will be dead due to starvation/dehydration/lack of medicine/bombing/being shot. Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Edit. Hamas bad. While studying to be a journalist I was taught how people got severely reprimanded for accentuating the brightness of some fires in a picture. But here a mainstream newspaper feels comfortable using pictures of bloody and suffering Gazan kids in their story on Hamas killing Israeli babies(which they’ve done), it’s sickening the lack of empathy being allowed to Gazans, Edited October 15, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 Forgot to say hamas bad Craving Peaches, Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, Relic said: 2,330 dead in Gaza, 740 of them children. The IDF is the most vegan army in the world, you know they have vegan leather boots, right? Please do not look at the dead Palestinian child we just shot, he had a rock and a flag so we got a little scared. dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 35 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I just felt if I don’t start that every remark about this conflict with Hamas bad there’s a stronger possibility of getting a a “Do you denounce Hamas” if the remark doesn’t elucidate the moral righteousness of Israel’s military actions. I swear it’s getting sickening. Yes, but given that I was actually responding to a specific conversation with specific points, and also that in the last topic I called someone a fascist for their callous response to Israel's abuses, one might be forgiven for thinking that this isn't actually happening and you're arguing, as you usually do, in bad faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Share Posted October 15, 2023 24 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: The IDF is the most vegan army in the world, you know they have vegan leather boots, right? Please do not look at the dead Palestinian child we just shot, he had a rock and a flag so we got a little scared. Did you also know they’re pro-lgbtq and Woman? So that means they to kill as many children as they damn well please. dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Yes, but given that I was a I wasn’t responding to you specifically when linking a story about Netanyahu’s wife’s advisor pushing for mass torture. Edited October 15, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I wasn’t responding to when linking a story about Netanyahu’s wife’s advisor pushing for mass torture. Yeah but you decided you needed to do the 'Hamas bad' thing after accusing me of doing the demand thing, while I was still in the conversation, don't play stupider now you know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 hours ago, polishgenius said: They aren't the IRA, who had codes of conduct to avoid killing civilians (they didn't always work of course, either because of mistakes or rogue attacks, but they tried) and specific strategic aims in where they attacked. Yeah, I can't let that pass. This is dangerously close to apologising for the IRA, who, whatever their supposed 'strategic aims', machine-gunned civilians and bombed civilian targets without warnings over two decades. It's not credible to say these were all 'mistakes or rogue attacks'. Moving on, it's interesting to see the comments from Iran about potential escalation. I've seen some claims that Hamas anticipated Hezbollah joining in the original attacks, but Iran put a stop to that for fear of US involvement. Don't know if these are credible. Fragile Bird, Werthead, Many-Faced Votary and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, polishgenius said: They aren't the IRA, who had codes of conduct to avoid killing civilians (they didn't always work of course, either because of mistakes or rogue attacks, but they tried) and specific strategic aims in where they attacked. I am not sure how true this is when you look at the victims. Take this poor German woman they shot, for one (Killing of Heidi Hazell - Wikipedia). Quote Hazell was sitting in the family car at her home. The car was approached by a member of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) in British Army battle dress, who opened fire with a Kalashnikov automatic weapon, shooting her over a dozen times. Quote "An IRA Active Service Unit carried out last night's shooting in West Germany. The woman killed was believed to have been a member of the British Crown Forces garrisoned in Dortmund." Yeah right. Obviously no attempt to check whether she was a British soldier (not that that makes it right either). Then it all gets dismissed as 'part of war'. Quote "There can be no doubt where Sinn Fein stands on actions which lead to the deaths of civilians or injuries to civilians. I don't want to see anyone killed, much less a 19-year-old soldier, an Australian citizen or an Irish citizen, but there is a conflict. There is a war going on. People join armies to fight." Similarly, these two Australian tourists (Killings of Nick Spanos and Stephen Melrose - Wikipedia) were killed just because their car had a British number plate. Again, no real check to see who they are killing. I don't think they really tried much at all to avoid killing civilians, to be honest. They like to claim that, of course, but I really don't think it's true. Edited October 15, 2023 by Craving Peaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 TIL that the IRA was operating in West Germany. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Just spoke with an Israeli friend who is currently a doctor in Northern Israel. He sent his wife and baby child to Prague on Monday, out of fear. We had to end the call because he needed to evacuate to a bomb shelter as Lebanon is apparently mortaring his region. Two of his friends died at the rave last weekend. He is the third Israeli friend I spoke with this week that's there currently, and by far the one that is currently in most danger. He repeated the story of the fetus being carved out of a pregnant Israeli and then beheaded. He also repeated his empathy for Palestinians, and the shit conditions in Gaza. I can not help but feel that he, along with every other Innocent peaceful Israeli, are being betrayed by their current government. Intel and security failings aside I have to repeat that I ,personally, don't see how invading Gaza will make him any safer in the long run. but he fully supports doing so. I can only hope that he, along with every innocent life caught up in this, stays safe and alive. But I know many many many more will die. Makes me want to cry. Crixus, Luzifer's right hand, Many-Faced Votary and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mormont said: Yeah, I can't let that pass. This is dangerously close to apologising for the IRA, who, whatever their supposed 'strategic aims', machine-gunned civilians and bombed civilian targets without warnings over two decades. It's not credible to say these were all 'mistakes or rogue attacks'. Yeah, that's fair, apologies - I was referring to a specific span of time and particular instances as a specific example (in particular the later phase of attacks in England). And certainly not justifying their actions. Was trying to make the point that the IRA had aims that could be understood and negotiated over in a way I don't think is true of Hamas, but a lack of care there from me in how I wrote that. Especially since I lumped a bunch of different IRAs together in a way that made it totally unclear what I was even referring to. My fault. Edited October 15, 2023 by polishgenius Craving Peaches, Many-Faced Votary and mormont 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbergkvist Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ran said: I've not seen any other proposals for how to get Hamas out of Gaza that does not involve a war against them. And I have not seen any proposals for how to get Hamas out of Gaza that does not involve killing all Gazans. What are the victory conditions that will allow Netanyahu to say "Hamas has now been defeated, so I'm going to end this blockade against Gaza and let the food, water and electricity come back in"? And remember, it has to happen within a few days, or else everyone will have died from thirst. Edited October 15, 2023 by dbergkvist Many-Faced Votary and Craving Peaches 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Just now, dbergkvist said: And I have not seen any proposals for how to get Hamas out of Gaza that does not involve killing all Gazans. Like I said, Mosul was cleared of ISIS. So was Fallujah. It has been done, it can be done, it probably will be done. I'll remind myself to visit this post in a couple of weeks to check on whether all the Gazans are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbergkvist Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Ran said: Like I said, Mosul was cleared of ISIS. So was Fallujah. It has been done, it can be done, it probably will be done. I'll remind myself to visit this post in a couple of weeks to check on whether all the Gazans are dead. And what will you do if they are? "Ooops, I was wrong. My bad."? If I'm wrong, my justification will be simple: "I based my assessment on publicly available information (they have no water, humans cannot live for prolonged periods without water, and Netanyahu hasn't given any indication that he'll provide them with water -- all statements from his government indidicate the opposite). I am glad that this divine intervention happened that caused my dire predictions to be wrong." It's not very hard to live with. Edited October 15, 2023 by dbergkvist Many-Faced Votary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ran said: I'll remind myself to visit this post in a couple of weeks to check on whether all the Gazans are dead. Fair enough, it’s unlikely that it will come to that. But then what is an acceptable number of dead Gazans? Is 20% acceptable? 40%? 70%? And what happens when you reach that number, whatever it might be, and Hamas hasn’t been eliminated? Do you pull back and try to come up w/ an alternative plan? Or do you go ahead regardless? I’m not trying to be a dick here, but aren’t these important questions? Questions that should be asked now instead of X weeks/months from now when we are in that situation? Crixus, Many-Faced Votary and Craving Peaches 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Ron DeSantis has cautioned against watching Al Jazeera coverage of the events, according to Al Jazeera. Many-Faced Votary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Is 20% acceptable? Oh, definitely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Ron DeSantis has cautioned against watching Al Jazeera coverage of the events, according to Al Jazeera. To be fair, Al Jazeera would probably caution against Ron DeSantis' coverage of the events as well. As would anyone. dbergkvist, Many-Faced Votary, Craving Peaches and 6 others 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Israeli Minister Seeks Cabinet Approval To Shut Down Al Jazeera Bureau In Israel: Reports (msn.com) Given Al Jazeera is one of the few outlets present in both Gaza and Israel, I do not think this is a good idea in terms of us knowing what is going on. Edited October 15, 2023 by Craving Peaches Many-Faced Votary, Crixus and dbergkvist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts