Lord of Raventree Hall Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) Think about it, if Jon Arryn just hadn't have investigated Cersei's infidelity, then Lysa and Petyr wouldn't have had to murder him. Eddard would have never come to King's Landing, and so the War of 5 Kings would never happen. Jon Arryn is responsible for everything that went wrong in these books. His evil desire for revenge against Cersei for cheating on Robert means Jon Arryn should burn forever in hell, he deserves all the karma, and he is personally responsible for every single death of the War of 5 Kings because of his investigation into Cersei. Also, Jon Arryn was obsessed with revenge and it's unhealthy. He went into rebellion simply because Aerys wanted to murder his wards and murdered his nephew and heir? Jon deserves lots of punishment for seeking revenge so evilly like an evil person. This has been satire of how people treat Catelyn Stark in this forum sometimes. Thank you. Have a nice day. Edited November 28, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall Jaenara Belarys, Green Stag, SeanF and 6 others 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Omg that's it! You figured out what these books are really all about. All hail the Lord of Raventree Hall. SaffronLady and Lord of Raventree Hall 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Joking aside, I have my doubts about how truly "honourable" Jon Arryn was. He seems to have been untroubled by the murder of Elia and her children, and either lied to the Martells about it, or threatened them with the consequences of trying to investigate further, perhaps both. Aldarion, Lord of Raventree Hall and Jaenara Belarys 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, SeanF said: Joking aside, I have my doubts about how truly "honourable" Jon Arryn was. He seems to have been untroubled by the murder of Elia and her children, and either lied to the Martells about it, or threatened them with the consequences of trying to investigate further, perhaps both. We just don't know what his reaction to it was nor what he said to Doran, only that he tried to reconcile Ned and Robert and met and defused the situation with Doran. SaffronLady, James Steller, Aejohn the Conqueroo and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fencer Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 While I appreciate your assessment, I think your argument could be further strengthened by asserting--as loudly as possible--that nothing bad happened ever prior to his investigating Cersei's infidelity. Since no one had done anything bad, including murder, infidelity, incest or revenge, there was no reason to investigate said bad behaviors. Ergo: Jon Arryn invented evil. Raven Princling, Lord of Raventree Hall, Craving Peaches and 2 others 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Fencer said: including murder, infidelity, incest or revenge For those of you who don't know, there are several wikis for villains ... Aejohn the Conqueroo, Craving Peaches, Hugorfonics and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oldstones Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Alys Arryn must have been his great aunt. Perhaps his cousin Maegor Targaryen the rightful heir was ill treated by Aegon V branch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fencer Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 16 hours ago, SaffronLady said: For those of you who don't know, there are several wikis for villains ... There are? I was unaware of this! Someone should post cut-and-paste topics on a weekly basis so that I can keep up with assessments of "evilness" of literary characters based on arbitrary--and hopefully vague--metrics and selectively selected evidence. I am sure this would be a good way to spend my time and engage the community. SaffronLady, Craving Peaches, Lord of Raventree Hall and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) On 11/30/2023 at 7:53 PM, Fencer said: Since no one had done anything bad, including murder, infidelity, incest or revenge, there was no reason to investigate said bad behaviors. Don't forget that if something bad did happen, it was not Cersei's fault at all, and Cersei was just being forced to do it because of the patriarchal system of Westeros. It was because of sexism that Cersei killed all those people so it's a-okay even though we don't see any other women in the series aside from maybe Lysa act like that. Which also means that Jon Arryn was engaged in a conspiracy to thwart women's rights when he investigated Cersei. 2 hours ago, Fencer said: Someone should post cut-and-paste topics on a weekly basis so that I can keep up with assessments of "evilness" of literary characters based on arbitrary--and hopefully vague--metrics and selectively selected evidence. Well you see Cersei can't be that bad, because she told herself she felt sorry for the innocent man she was torturing to produce a false confession as part of her plot to frame an innocent woman to boost her own power, which means she only scores only 98.2/100 evil points based on my arbitrary, illogical and inconsistent classification system, so therefore she cannot be evil, and if you think she is you're sexist. Edited December 1, 2023 by Craving Peaches Aldarion and Willam Stark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 On 11/30/2023 at 1:17 PM, SeanF said: Joking aside, I have my doubts about how truly "honourable" Jon Arryn was. He seems to have been untroubled by the murder of Elia and her children, and either lied to the Martells about it, or threatened them with the consequences of trying to investigate further, perhaps both. Eh, the Targlings are alive because of him, he's a terrible Hand and husband but doesn't seem like a terrible person. Him raising in rebellions rather than killing his golden boys is badass af. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 16 hours ago, frenin said: terrible Hand and husband Hah? He actually ruled the realm while Robert was on his never-ending vacation. And what bad did he do to Lysa exactly, except being older than her for give or take two or three decades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, SaffronLady said: Hah? He actually ruled the realm while Robert was on his never-ending vacation. And what bad did he do to Lysa exactly, except being older than her for give or take two or three decades? Jon is a disgusting old man, and clearly frigid toward the warm hearted and loving Lysa. Lysa got the worst luck of any noble woman in all of Westeros with this horrible pairing. Catelyn gets to have the beautiful Eddard, but Lysa? A disgusting old man who caused every problem in all of Westeros. Now I am parodying Stannis-stans about Selyse Baratheon. Also, I enjoyed calling Eddard beautiful, lol. Edited December 3, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall frenin and SaffronLady 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: the beautiful Eddard That is technically correct at the age of their marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Hey at least it's a different character named Jon we're blaming for everything this time, ha ha ha Lord of Raventree Hall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 13 hours ago, SaffronLady said: Hah? He actually ruled the realm while Robert was on his never-ending vacation. And what bad did he do to Lysa exactly, except being older than her for give or take two or three decades? He ruled it... badly and he could not do the one job he was supposed to be good at, put some sense into the King he had just made. And regarding Lysa... Quote Catelyn rose, threw on a robe, and descended the steps to the darkened solar to stand over her father. A sense of helpless dread filled her. "Father," she said, "Father, I know what you did." She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. "You made him take her," she whispered. "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully." Small wonder her sister's marriage had been so loveless. The Arryns were proud, and prickly of their honor. Lord Jon might wed Lysa to bind the Tullys to the cause of the rebellion, and in hopes of a son, but it would have been hard for him to love a woman who came to his bed soiled and unwilling. He would have been kind, no doubt; dutiful, yes; but Lysa needed warmth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, frenin said: put some sense into the King he had just made. I won't overturn all of JonA's work just because of this single (but very real) problem. All the men and money and ships Stannis used to fight Balon had to come from somewhere, and for now it looks like JonA handled logistics. 4 minutes ago, frenin said: And regarding Lysa... So he was a bad husband because he wasn't "warm" (what does that mean anyway) to a wife who fucked another man before they got married? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, SaffronLady said: I won't overturn all of JonA's work just because of this single (but very real) problem. All the men and money and ships Stannis used to fight Balon had to come from somewhere, and for now it looks like JonA handled logistics. If only they didn'y have a full treasury to pay for those things. 1 minute ago, SaffronLady said: So he was a bad husband because he wasn't "warm" (what does that mean anyway) to a wife who fucked another man before they got married? He was a bad husband for not trying in his marriage, that he resented the 18yo for having sex just nails it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 minute ago, frenin said: If only they didn'y have a full treasury to pay for those things. ?LF wasn't even in central admin during the Greyjoy rebellion, what you talking about. 2 minutes ago, frenin said: He was a bad husband for not trying in his marriage, that he resented the 18yo for having sex just nails it. Wut. Like, we may be proletariats, but nobles could afford to care - and thus give a damn - about virginity. It's kind of a big deal to have your own kid inherit your mone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, SaffronLady said: ?LF wasn't even in central admin during the Greyjoy rebellion, what you talking about. What are you talking about? 1 minute ago, SaffronLady said: Wut. Like, we may be proletariats, but nobles could afford to care - and thus give a damn - about virginity. It's kind of a big deal to have your own kid inherit your mone. Doesn't make them less pricks. Lysa wasn't pregnant and he knew that and there was no point in resenting her years afterwards. But this has come full circle and i'm pretty tired, so agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, frenin said: What are you talking about? I meant we don't have data on treasury status during Balon's rebellion, so I don't get why you're smashing JonA out of all people. He was like Prince Viserys to Daeron I and Baelor, or Bloodraven to Aerys I. He held the realm together and his death started its unravelling. He was a good Hand from what limited data we have. 3 minutes ago, frenin said: Doesn't make them less pricks. If I had mone I don't want another man's kids getting their mitts on them, that's not being a prick. 4 minutes ago, frenin said: Lysa wasn't pregnant and he knew that and there was no point in resenting her years afterwards. Of course, no need to resent your wife's childhood affair when said childhood love is now working for you and coming into contact with your wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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