Ran Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 minutes ago, karaddin said: is is both drawing a very long bow given the left-wing rabbit hole isn't particularly associated with people doing mass shootings as a form of suicide and pretty gross. Left-wing terrorism has a long history, and left-wing mass shootings are hardly-unknown. I see nothing gross about being thankful that someone who believed any and all attacks on Israelis by Palestinians is okay did not follow the trend in the US of picking up a gun for his protest action. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, karaddin said: IThis is both drawing a very long bow given the left-wing rabbit hole isn't particularly associated with people doing mass shootings as a form of suicide and pretty gross. precisely. and given that people are basically just saying "please stop a genocide." this really shouldn't be controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: precisely. and given that people are basically just saying "please stop a genocide." this really shouldn't be controversial. Do you mean it's all right if he went on a shooting spree, that that would be okay? You are responding to someone saying that I'm wrong to suggest the left-wing is incapable of mass murder (...), so I'm not clear as to what you're actually agreeing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 in other news, 13% of the vote came back as uncommitted. That's 100k voters. Didn't Biden win the state (Michigan) by 150k votes in 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Ran said: someone saying that I'm wrong to suggest the left-wing is incapable of mass murder (...) Oh come on, I said it wasn't particularly associated not it was incapable. How about responding to what I actually write instead of what you think I write? What percentage of mass shootings in the last decade have been motivated by right wing political beliefs vs left wing political beliefs? The majority are neither, but the scale comparing these two is going to be leaning pretty clearly to one side. On top of that and irrespective of his alleged (do we actually have confirmation these comments are from him? Genuinely unsure here) comments, we're talking about someone who sacrificed their own life asking for the killing of innocents to stop, its incredibly insulting to equate that impulse to be the same as homicidal suicide. Kyoshi, Craving Peaches, Larry of the Lawn and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 hours ago, karaddin said: I don't agree with that comment but I think 'There are no civilians' is a misreading of what he's saying there. I interpret that as saying that the civilians that do exist are still complicit in the oppression, not that they don't exist. Putting scare quotes around civilians like that does muddy the waters though so I don't think your interpretation is deliberately uncharitable. That would be fine, more or less, in a broad sense, but the last paragraph is using that complicity to justify the October attacks. The scare quotes just drive the point home- he's saying there are no illegitimate targets for Hamas. Ran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I mean, on some level, I suppose we should all be thankful that everyone who dies didn't go on a shooting spree. Rippounet, Centrist Simon Steele and Spockydog 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, polishgenius said: That would be fine, more or less, in a broad sense, but the last paragraph is using that complicity to justify the October attacks. The scare quotes just drive the point home- he's saying there are no illegitimate targets for Hamas. Ok yeah, reading it again I think your interpretation is fair. Acknowledging that civilians exist doesn't carry much weight when you're viewing them as a legitimate target despite that. polishgenius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just an observation based on what been going on here over the past few months. Either just let people make their comment and move on for this is going fully derail this thread. I will say reconsider the suspension of topic but a particular German Party is going to get up brought much sooner or later if this matter is not moved on from this quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 19 minutes ago, Ran said: Do you mean it's all right if he went on a shooting spree, that that would be okay? You are responding to someone saying that I'm wrong to suggest the left-wing is incapable of mass murder (...), so I'm not clear as to what you're actually agreeing with. if i'm reading your posts correctly, you seem to be making false equivalences between typical right and left wing rhetorics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: if i'm reading your posts correctly, you seem to be making false equivalences between typical right and left wing rhetorics. I am saying that in America, some misguided person choosing to self-immolate is something to be thankful for since it's increasingly common to use guns to go on shooting sprees as a form of "protest". Why is this such a difficult thing to accept? Do you actually want people to be shot up as a protest? Edited February 28 by Ran benderschweiz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 My point at least is that you can draw some conclusions about the type of person he was based on what he actually did, rather than a hypothetical worst case scenario of what he didn't do. And that the actual actions taken are at odds with that worst case scenario. Kyoshi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, karaddin said: My point at least is that you can draw some conclusions about the type of person he was based on what he actually did, rather than a hypothetical worst case scenario of what he didn't do. And that the actual actions taken are at odds with that worst case scenario. I mean, he was glad American soldiers were killed and he believed all Israelis were legitimate targets, so it does not seem to me his rhetoric suggests he was benign. Again, I'm glad he didn't take the more typical American approach of grabbing some guns. Jace, Extat, Gorn and TrackerNeil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, karaddin said: My point at least is that you can draw some conclusions about the type of person he was based on what he actually did, rather than a hypothetical worst case scenario of what he didn't do. And that the actual actions taken are at odds with that worst case scenario. ran, what karaddin said is what i'm agreeing with. why assign hypothetical actions to him when he took a very specific route and articulated his thought process? you might not agree with his politics or actions, but to assign worse "crimes" to him by evoking so-called left wing extremism seems, at best, an attempt at further trivialising what he did and why he did it, if not outright villainising him and his cause. Larry of the Lawn and kissdbyfire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I did not actually assign a worse crime? I said, and remain, glad that he didn't take up a gun in good old American fashion. Jeebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmmm Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, karaddin said: I'm terrible at definitions so just going to copy an actual one This is both drawing a very long bow given the left-wing rabbit hole isn't particularly associated with people doing mass shootings as a form of suicide and pretty gross. I know what it means, and you used it wrong. He does not muddy the waters. He is clear about what he believes: There are no real Israeli civilians as they are all colonisers, and Hamas is entitled to fight them in any way it wants. It is also pretty clear where he got this line of argumentation from, as it was Hamas' official explanation for the October 7 attack during the first week or so after it took place. Then they noticed that the savagery of their terrorist attack was too extreme even for many of their sympathizers, so they started moderating their rethoric and saying that the rapes, burnings and child killings were lies, or done by Israeli attack helicopters, or whatever. Edited February 28 by Hmmm TrackerNeil and Ran 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 9 hours ago, GrimTuesday said: The fact that they are doing this while staring down the barrel of a gun in Trump, it should tell you that the Democratic party has massively fucked up. And if there is no course correction, They have no one to blame but themselves. This is not voters failing the Democratic party, this is the Democratic party failing the voters by refusing to do the will of their voters. So Republican dedication to an eminently corrupt proto-fascist is the fault of Democrats, and not the Republicans who support him or the voters who chose him? I don't know how one gets to that conclusion. Edited February 28 by TrackerNeil Ser Scot A Ellison and Jaxom 1974 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 48 minutes ago, Hmmm said: I know what it means, and you used it wrong You disagreeing with the interpretation I was clearing reading doesn't make my usage of the phrase wrong, it means you disagree with me. And hey look at how I replied to polishgenius, I'm capable of listening to differing viewpoints and conceding points when someone doesn't act like a jackass. On an international forum you frequently run into English as second language individuals, or merely people from another country that doesn't use a particular phrase that you take for granted. When someone replies to my usage of a phrase saying nothing but repeating the phrase with a question mark I assume this is what happened, and try to explain in good faith. straits and Larry of the Lawn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Rippounet said: Dude, you spent weeks denying crimes against humanity ; the left isn't the one with a "warped sense of reality." The far left does often overestimate their support and can fall into unhealthy extremism. They're not as bad as the far right, but denying that it is a thing isn't helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kyoshi said: precisely. and given that people are basically just saying "please stop a genocide." this really shouldn't be controversial. Are you cool with holding all Israelis personally responsible for everything the Likud government of Israel is doing as this individual appears to have endorsed? I always thought “collective punishment” was a bad thing… is that no longet the case? Edited February 28 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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