International events

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So… you would empower the State to impose criminal sanction upon parents who teach their kids about their faith?  Look I don’t think all parents are perfect but that seems like… a lot… of power in the hands of the State.

The state has always had this kind of power. Right wingers want prayer back in school back (and we all know which religion they'll be teaching) and have successfully corrupted the courts to a point where they'll make decision more impactful than whether or not there should be some regulations on what parents can teach their kids (as there already are).

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So… you would empower the State to impose criminal sanction upon parents who teach their kids about their faith?  Look I don’t think all parents are perfect but that seems like… a lot… of power in the hands of the State.

Well it looks like Modi is already up to a great deal of persecution of minority religions, so if your not playing for the right team the State is already being empowered to shut down your school, place of worship and criminalize your non Hindi creed.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

The state has always had this kind of power. Right wingers want prayer back in school back (and we all know which religion they'll be teaching) and have successfully corrupted the courts to a point where they'll make decision more impactful than whether or not there should be some regulations on what parents can teach their kids (as there already are).

And that’s wrong in my earnest assessment.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

And that’s wrong in my earnest assessment.

Let's play a fun game and you have to pick one of two choices. Should the state be able to tell parents what they can't teach their children about faith or should the state be able to tell parents what vaccines their kids must take to be a part of society? 

[Zorral]

 

• Water cannons were used to disperse thousands of protesters who had gathered for a third night to call for early elections in Israel and the release of the rest of the hostages held in Gaza. Protesters reached the front of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's home in Jerusalem, and Israeli police say a Molotov cocktail was thrown.

Edited April 3 by Zorral

[The Anti-Targ]

23 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Unless aliens attack or shit, separate nations spending resources individually for overlapping necessities shall continue to contribute to gross human waste.

I think a major catastrophe is going to end such selfish and wasteful decision making and behaviour, but it will be one of our own making, not because of aliens. Possibly unlike many my belief is that any Alien civilisation advanced enough to travel the stars and visit other worlds with civilisations capable of putting people into space has already gone through and worked out their bullshit selfishness, aggression and desire to conquer, enslave and colonise. We'll get there eventually too, for the most part we've already realised conquering, enslaving and colonising is bad and not something we should do. I have faith. It just might be a few centuries before we get there. 

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think a major catastrophe is going to end such selfish and wasteful decision making and behaviour, but it will be one of our own making, not because of aliens.

Nuclear Holocaust or equivalent shit can only have that magnitude, but going to wipe out everyone anyway so no one left to repent

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Possibly unlike many my belief is that any Alien civilisation advanced enough to travel the stars and visit other worlds with civilisations capable of putting people into space has already gone through and worked out their bullshit selfishness, aggression and desire to conquer, enslave and colonise.

Well what if we are unlucky enough to get caught in the middle of their enlightenment, the lesson that teaches them peace. Emperor Ashoka*

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

We'll get there eventually too, for the most part we've already realised conquering, enslaving and colonising is bad and not something we should do. I have faith. It just might be a few centuries before we get there.

We've just upgraded our weapons (apes with sticks and stones to ICBMs now), haven't learnt shit. Corporatized (no such word I bet) war like any other commodity (education, healthcare- you name it). Once it's our survival against any extra-terrestrials', all nobility will be shrugged off (not while defending, but seeking alternates once we are done fucking up this planet). We'll find some rare power source/life sustaining mineral or resource to justify blah blah. Don't want to make another Africa out of the worlds we discover that can sustain life or does so

I hope we don't advance sufficiently and that we die off (not in centuries but decades, quick and painless rather than painfully dystopian every man for himself all ugliness bared), better for all lifeforms anywhere in the universe. Our lizard brain just won't allow us as a society to attain that utopian wisdom, just perpetuate the never-ending cycle of misery, though lucky ones escape for most or all their lives. Our technological evolution is way ahead of our biological one so write it off as a glitch, anomaly, bug in the gene code whatever.

Edited April 4 by TheLastWolf

[JGP]

3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think a major catastrophe is going to end such selfish and wasteful decision making and behaviour, but it will be one of our own making, not because of aliens. Possibly unlike many my belief is that any Alien civilisation advanced enough to travel the stars and visit other worlds with civilisations capable of putting people into space has already gone through and worked out their bullshit selfishness, aggression and desire to conquer, enslave and colonise. We'll get there eventually too, for the most part we've already realised conquering, enslaving and colonising is bad and not something we should do. I have faith. It just might be a few centuries before we get there. 

Hope you're right.

Myself, also possibly unlike many, I believe the universe is geared to favor emergence from complex adaptive systems, and where those systems stack up enough, life. And, if fortune continues to favor said cooperative interactions, eventually intelligent life. 

I've zero doubt there's many somethings out there, but do doubt they've all transcended their foundational nature.     

[Bironic]

To bring the topic back from outer space: Venezolan dictator Maduro signed a law that annexes part of Guyana as A Venezuelan state. 
I wonder if this is just posturing or if he really plans to invade Guyana… I mean if he does this could turn out to be the Venezuelan version of the falklands war… 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 hours ago, JGP said:

Hope you're right.

Myself, also possibly unlike many, I believe the universe is geared to favor emergence from complex adaptive systems, and where those systems stack up enough, life. And, if fortune continues to favor said cooperative interactions, eventually intelligent life. 

I've zero doubt there's many somethings out there, but do doubt they've all transcended their foundational nature.     

Interesting.  How do you address the Fermi Paradox?

[Zorral]

56 minutes ago, Bironic said:

I wonder if this is just posturing or if he really plans to invade Guyana… I mean if he does this could turn out to be the Venezuelan version of the falklands war… 

OTOH, this determination to annex this stretch of territory has been going on for decades with Venezuela, while Colombia objects. 

https://en.mercopress.com/2024/01/17/essequibo-about-to-become-military-conflict-colombia-s-petro-tells-wef

 

[Zorral]

20 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

The state has always had this kind of power.

Unless the religion in question believes It Is The State and thus refuses because religion is always exempted from any obligation to anything but itself, as we see in NYC and Elsewhere.  Which then sets up serious confrontation between the government and the religion, even, or perhaps, particularly, in theocratic states.

 

[Bironic]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

OTOH, this determination to annex this stretch of territory has been going on for decades with Venezuela, while Colombia objects. 

https://en.mercopress.com/2024/01/17/essequibo-about-to-become-military-conflict-colombia-s-petro-tells-wef

 

Yes the Colombian President seems to be a wise man (not wise guy like Escobar  )

The conflict is very old, but in recent times Maduro seems to escalate it… first the so called referendum, now the creation of this „state“… I don’t know much about Venezuelan politics, is that just posturing because there’s an election in June? I mean he wins that election anyway, even if he doesn’t get the votes, so why do this macho- great man thing? I am unsure if maybe Putins example is something that catches on…

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Interesting.  How do you address the Fermi Paradox?

I think it was in a comic strip (maybe calvin and Hobbes, not sure tbh) where someone says that the best evidence for intelligent life in the universe is the fact that they are hiding from us

[kissdbyfire]

4 hours ago, Bironic said:

To bring the topic back from outer space: Venezolan dictator Maduro signed a law that annexes part of Guyana as A Venezuelan state. 
I wonder if this is just posturing or if he really plans to invade Guyana… I mean if he does this could turn out to be the Venezuelan version of the falklands war… 

It’s posturing. He’s hoping for another country to do something stupid to then double down on the stupidity. He can’t invade by sea b/c apparently he doesn’t have the means, so any invading force would have to cross Brazilian territory and the Brazilian president has said that won’t happen, not even when hell freezes over. He’s pissed b/c of all the criticism he’s been getting irt the upcoming elections, and he’s been criticised by everyone including Lula who had up until now tried to keep engaging Maduro b/c he says only imposing sanctions and beating them down (even more) not only isn’t working but hurts the Venezuelan people above all. So he’s lashing out and according to pundits and commentators it’s basically a stunt, he’s playing for Venezuelans on both sides of the political spectrum who believe the region is theirs. 

[JGP]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Interesting.  How do you address the Fermi Paradox?

Do I need to, Scot? The universe is pretty damned big and likewise aged, there's the timespans and distances we're talking about, then consider the technological infancy of humanity. I mean, Webb's found evidence already of galaxies of a size that defy our theories of the early universe, and instead of billions of galaxies out there its more like trillions... Do I need to go on. You're smart, walk it out.

 

4 hours ago, Bironic said:

To bring the topic back from outer space...

 

Sure. On that scale it's patently clear humans really, really suck.

[turns off the News]   

Edited April 4 by JGP

[Bironic]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It’s posturing. He’s hoping for another country to do something stupid to then double down on the stupidity.

I don't understand, what would another country do that Maduro exploits?

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

He can’t invade by sea b/c apparently he doesn’t have the means, so any invading force would have to cross Brazilian territory and the Brazilian president has said that won’t happen, not even when hell freezes over.

Venezuela and Guyana share a land border, its mostly jungle, rivers and almost no roads but I am not completely sold that they couldnt try it, maybe just seize some of the border towns...

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

He’s pissed b/c of all the criticism he’s been getting irt the upcoming elections

Aren't those elections totally bogus? the last time he didnt get the votes and still remained president IIRC

 

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Bironic said:

I don't understand, what would another country do that Maduro exploits?

Venezuela and Guyana share a land border, its mostly jungle, rivers and almost no roads but I am not completely sold that they couldnt try it, maybe just seize some of the border towns...

Aren't those elections totally bogus? the last time he didnt get the votes and still remained president IIRC

 

I don’t understand it either. The posturing part sounds true enough, he’s been doing that for a long time apparently. As to the rest, no clue but that’s what commentators were saying and however ignorant they may be they definitely understand this mess a lot better than me. 
This guy has to go, has had to go for a long time… 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Bironic said:

I think it was in a comic strip (maybe calvin and Hobbes, not sure tbh) where someone says that the best evidence for intelligent life in the universe is the fact that they are hiding from us

Isn’t that the “Dark Forest” hypothesis?

 

[Bironic]

12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t understand it either. The posturing part sounds true enough, he’s been doing that for a long time apparently. As to the rest, no clue but that’s what commentators were saying and however ignorant they may be they definitely understand this mess a lot better than me. 
This guy has to go, has had to go for a long time… 

Thanks!

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Isn’t that the “Dark Forest” hypothesis?

 

I think in the piece that I remember it was meant more on a humorous level, basically that we humans are such a stupid people and a bad influence overall so if you're intelligent you will understand that you're better off avoiding us... but yes the dark forest hypothesis would probably fall somwhere in there as well...

[Maithanet]

18 minutes ago, Bironic said:

Venezuela and Guyana share a land border, its mostly jungle, rivers and almost no roads but I am not completely sold that they couldnt try it, maybe just seize some of the border towns...

Perun did a video about a potential Venezuela-Guyana conflict, and the takeaway was that Venezuela would have a great deal of difficulty invading via the land border, even if it is totally unopposed militarily.  If Guyana were to get even modest foreign assistance, Venezuela's position would quickly become hopeless because of how bad the supply situation would be.  The US, China and Brazil have all made meaningful investments in Guyana and its oil fields in the past few years.  If Venezuela were to invade, the only scenario where they succeed is if no one does anything, and just lets them take over (and in the process steal billions in investments made by US/Chinese/Brazilian companies).  Venezuela knows that is not a good bet to make.