International Events : How I learnt to stop worrying and love the-

[Bironic]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Ordinary folk never want war and never call for war, they are propagandised into it by people who have or want power and see an advantage in starting or carrying on war, and who stand to lose if peace breaks out all over the place. It has always been thus. The motivations are many and varied.

It's curious that @Bironic doesn't mention the US, when the US certainly has the power to throw a blanket on the fire. Right now it would seem to be to the distinct electoral advantage of Biden to make Israel cool their jets, so why isn't he? By definition a plan carried out by more than one person is a conspiracy. Every country or group mentioned in your post requires at least two people to conspire to achieve their objectives. So rather odd that you say my post is conspiratorial. Maybe you think I'm being all deep state, illuminati conspiratorial. Why look for shadowy organisations to blame when the ones in front of our eyes are right there not even trying to hide.

Thanks for your clarification. I interpreted your post, apparently wrongly so, as some sort of wider, nefarious conspiration in behind and between the various actors (basically your illuminati/deep state etc. groups that are working from behind the curtains).

Yes the US has some power to do what you say. But they have some limits, there are groups they can't influence or can't at the moment. Biden is a post Vietnam debacle politician and he is probably also a cautious person by nature, so he will almost exclusively search a diplomatic solution and everyone knows that and can thus leverage that fact to their advantage (which is what people as varied as Putin or Netanyahu do). There is no strategic ambiguity with Biden, he speaks softly but left the big stick at home. Second the US has pivoted to Asia-Pacific, something done by Obama and further emphasized by both (!!!) Trump and Biden. The disastrous and unpopular experience the US had in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia and Lebanon, makes them extremely reluctant to commit to that region anymore. Further this is an election year and the current congress and thus by extension the current government are basically lame ducks (both Putin and Bibi bank on the fact that in January they might deal with a much more friendly government). The US is not going to risk doing anything major prior to the election, because whatever they do it might give their opponents an advantage. All of that together amounts to the US basically saying fuck you Netanyahu diplomatically, but not following up on that with substance. They have managed to get the Israeli to do the bare minimum such as allowing some humanitarian aid to Gaza etc. but not much more. Which is still better then what a Trump or Bush administration would have done, but I can understand that people expect more.

Edited April 30 by Bironic

[The Big Stink]

15 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said:

What does genociding palestinians has to do with jewish people right to live? Do palestinians have the right to live? And to live free with everything that comes with that. Or for you, jewish people are superior to palestinans in some way

I agree with you that Hamas needs to quit slaughtering Palestinians (and others). Jewish people shouldn't be held to a higher standard than other peoples. Point me to one instance when they have attacked someone?

[kissdbyfire]

56 minutes ago, The Big Stink said:

Point me to one instance when they have attacked someone?

Is this meant as a serious question? 

[Conflicting Thought]

1 hour ago, The Big Stink said:

I agree with you that Hamas needs to quit slaughtering Palestinians (and others). Jewish people shouldn't be held to a higher standard than other peoples. Point me to one instance when they have attacked someone?

I get the impression that you are not discussing this in good faith as i never mentioned hamas, and hamas are not the ones genociding palestinians, but good try, i guess?

And your "question" is the definite nail in the coffin to me, so im not going to bother with you anymore. Byeee.

[TheLastWolf]

Prolonging conflicts good for business of all sorts, chiefly arms. Restricting escalation is just to not kill the golden goose. Read sometime ago something here similar labelled conspiratorial so...

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Is this meant as a serious question? 

Indeed. The records of Palestinians being attacked by them go back at least to 1947.  Or should we confine it only to, o say, only the last three decades on the West Bank?

[Zorral]

Europe’s Economic Laggards Have Become Its Leaders
More than a decade after painful austerity, Greece, Portugal and Spain have been growing faster than traditional powerhouses like Germany.

Gift link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/business/europe-economy-inflation-growth.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oU0.8M4t.t9W48IdhdUGN&smid=url-share

The caption for a foto illustrating the piece says, "A shopping district in Madrid. Spain’s economy grew faster than the rest of the euro area last year."

Which made me think, "We personally contributed well over a quarter million to that with our company within 12 months."

Much of this growth is tourism, and these nations are literally being touristed to death, via the unregulated building of massive hotels and so on.  The people who must staff and minister to these tourists as on Tenerife have nowhere to live, and the pollution is stupendous.  So, destination spots in Spain, as in Italy and France, are attempting to put limits on this.

 

Edited April 30 by Zorral

[Bironic]

9 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Europe’s Economic Laggards Have Become Its Leaders
More than a decade after painful austerity, Greece, Portugal and Spain have been growing faster than traditional powerhouses like Germany.

Gift link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/business/europe-economy-inflation-growth.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oU0.8M4t.t9W48IdhdUGN&smid=url-share

 

Thank you very much for the link.

I do wonder however, however how much of that growth is just some sort of rebound effect after years of crisis and austerity. Second how much of that growth is long term and sustainable? Tourism for example doesn’t really generate much high-income jobs nor does it need a highly educated workforce and its insane consumption of water (golf courses, swimming pools etc) is directly at odds with agriculture, nature and climate change. The latter of which already hits Southern Europe like a truck, and will continue to increase. If by the end of the century Stockholm has the same temperature as todays Athens most Swedes/humans will probably see that as a plus. The downside will be that Athens will have the temperature of todays Death Valley. Which is dead for a good reason. 

[Padraig]

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Prolonging conflicts good for business of all sorts, chiefly arms. Restricting escalation is just to not kill the golden goose. 

Well, I do think that's all a bit silly.  Wanting conflict to make money but not too much conflict!  Nobody has that level of control over things.

What you say is all a bit vague though and it depends on what people are thinking of.  For sure, the West made plenty money from supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia, despite it using those weapons against the people in Yemen.  Things like that can (and should) be criticised but once you start layering in levels of complexity, you do lose me.

[Altherion]

8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Right now it would seem to be to the distinct electoral advantage of Biden to make Israel cool their jets, so why isn't he?

The Biden administration is trying very, very hard to get some kind of agreement, but the US doesn't quite have the resources and/or the resolve to push the two sides to a peace. The administration has some leverage with Israel, but what it absolutely cannot do is convince Israel to have a permanent ceasefire without all of the hostages being released -- this would be a non-starter in Israel and extremely unpopular in the US. The US has much less leverage with Hamas and the latter will not release the hostages without massive concessions which, again, would not be politically palatable in either the US or Israel so... what exactly is Biden supposed to do beyond what he is already doing?

[TheLastWolf]

44 minutes ago, Padraig said:

  Wanting conflict to make money but not too much conflict!  Nobody has that level of control over things.

That's only when things fuck up too obviously and irreparably. Till then expect them to not inform us of their nefarious schemes. Just look at the global defence spending increase over the years.

Edited April 30 by TheLastWolf

[Padraig]

2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

That's only when things fuck up too obviously and irreparably. Till then expect them to not inform us of their nefarious schemes. Just look at the global defence spending increase over the years.

That can mean whatever one likes, so i'll choose to believe you agree with me completely.

[kissdbyfire]

Sounds like a brilliant idea! /s

#LandOfTheFree

 

[TheLastWolf]

5 hours ago, Padraig said:

That can mean whatever one likes, so i'll choose to believe you agree with me completely.

Erm... no.

Your certainty over the level of control (or lack thereof) those multibillion dollar industries exert over global affairs is irrational.

If there are billions to be made from war, I don't think anyone's incredulous nature is going to change the fact that the ones who seek those fortunes will try and exploit every capitalist democratic provision available (breaking what they cannot bypass with impunity) steering events in pursuit of that bounty. Murphy's Law exists.

It's sheer fallacy to refute this by simply emphasizing your belief to be contrary. A sorry substitute for a logical rebuttal. What concrete evidence have you against the (I'll admit, cynical) conclusions drawn from the extreme ugliness man has shown himself to be capable of and more, time and again throughout history?

Edited May 1 by TheLastWolf

[DMC]

10 hours ago, Altherion said:

The Biden administration is trying very, very hard to get some kind of agreement, but the US doesn't quite have the resources and/or the resolve to push the two sides to a peace. The administration has some leverage with Israel, but what it absolutely cannot do is convince Israel to have a permanent ceasefire without all of the hostages being released -- this would be a non-starter in Israel and extremely unpopular in the US. The US has much less leverage with Hamas and the latter will not release the hostages without massive concessions which, again, would not be politically palatable in either the US or Israel so... what exactly is Biden supposed to do beyond what he is already doing?

It’s very funny how uninformed this is.  Almost like you’re hoping for it.  Which is fucking disgusting.

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Erm... no.

Your certainty over the level of control (or lack thereof) those multibillion dollar industries exert over global affairs is irrational.

If there are billions to be made from war, I don't think anyone's incredulous nature is going to change the fact that the ones who seek those fortunes will try and exploit every capitalist democratic provision available (breaking what they cannot bypass with impunity) steering events in pursuit of that bounty. Murphy's Law exists.

It's sheer fallacy to refute this by simply emphasizing your belief to be contrary. A sorry substitute for a logical rebuttal. What concrete evidence have you against the (I'll admit, cynical) conclusions drawn from the extreme ugliness man has shown himself to be capable of and more, time and again throughout history?

You are reading way too much into my post.  I do think what you said is silly, that these unnamed companies are encouraging these unnamed governments to commit violent acts, so that they can sell them weapons but they are also telling them not to commit too much violence because they don't want to sell too many weapons (or something).

Its all very vague.  But the advantage of been vague is that one can read truth into it (and I can see stuff in what you wrote that I agree with).  But also disagreements.  I choose not to invent a disagreement with you (because I have to put words in your mouth).  If you want to be less vague, sure.  I can say more possibly.

[TheLastWolf]

35 minutes ago, Padraig said:

but they are also telling them not to commit too much violence because they don't want to sell too many weapons (or something).

If that's what you could eke out of my post, I don't know what to say. Individual acts of violence in war can't be controlled by any corporate puppeteer. But state policies pursued to prolong, mitigate or end conflicts (whatever is in their interest) is certainly within their capability. 

Lol, no one is ever against selling too much shit. You don't cut open the goose laying golden eggs. It's like fuel added to a fireplace not a boiler. I didn't think I'd have to explain this analogy. 

43 minutes ago, Padraig said:

Its all very vague

Explained. 

44 minutes ago, Padraig said:

But the advantage of been vague is that one can read truth into it (and I can see stuff in what you wrote that I agree with).  But also disagreements.  I choose not to invent a disagreement with you (because I have to put words in your mouth).  If you want to be less vague, sure.  I can say more possibly.

Like how less vague-er? Do I personally know any defence contractor/s raking in the big bucks out of the Pentagon conveniently (oo coincidence) having global geopolitics go their way? Or our ignorance of such an individual/corp any proof that such influencing isn't happening. 

[Hmmm]

17 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

That's only when things fuck up too obviously and irreparably. Till then expect them to not inform us of their nefarious schemes. Just look at the global defence spending increase over the years.

That is mainly connected to the increasing belligerence of China and Russia. Particularly the latter. Are you claiming that Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin are secretly employed by Lockheed Martin or something?

[Altherion]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

It’s very funny how uninformed this is.  Almost like you’re hoping for it.  Which is fucking disgusting.

Why is it that every time you respond to one of my recent posts it is with some completely content-free insult? Can you at least put some effort into the trolling and say something on-topic?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Altherion said:

Why is it that every time you respond to one of my recent posts it is with some completely content-free insult? Can you at least put some effort into the trolling and say something on-topic?

Because the posts speak with a type of authority that is wholly bereft of informed analysis.  The ceasefire deal on the table right now is not permanent and the Biden administration absolutely has leverage with Hamas via intermediaries.  Otherwise the talks wouldn’t have advanced as far as they have.