The sin of skinchanging

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

What Bran is doing is abuse of a mentally disabled friend.  Spying on friends as well.  I think Bran is already cognizant that it is wrong.

[Moiraine Sedai]

The Starks are easily one of the worst families in Westeros  when it comes to doing despicable things. Arya worships inside a deadly cult and commits senseless murders. Jon is a traitor at the Watch. Robb rebelled and began a bloody campaign that killed thousands of innocent people.  

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Is this like Pure Evil, or Near Evil, or Kinda Like Evil If You Look At It In A Mirror With One Eye Squinted? There's a whole spectrum, you know?

[Prince of the North]

13 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I think Bran is already cognizant that it is wrong.

Agree with this.  So...I guess the question is: Will Bran continue to do it and maybe even go on to do even worse things or will he stop?  Hmm, until Martin tells us for certain, I guess the answer depends on one's preconceptions, right?

2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Starks are easily one of the worst families in Westeros  when it comes to doing despicable things. Arya worships inside a deadly cult and commits senseless murders. Jon is a traitor at the Watch. Robb rebelled and began a bloody campaign that killed thousands of innocent people.  

[Darth Sidious]

I look at what Bran does as a form of slavery. 

[Prince of the North]

As Bran may come to think as well.  No one knows how this will turn out until Martin reveals it.

[KingStoneheart]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:36 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Starks are easily one of the worst families in Westeros  when it comes to doing despicable things. Arya worships inside a deadly cult and commits senseless murders. Jon is a traitor at the Watch. Robb rebelled and began a bloody campaign that killed thousands of innocent people.  

Is this sarcasm? I don’t even want to fall for the bait if it is but I really just can’t tell.

[JoyfulJoy]

2 hours ago, KingStoneheart said:

Is this sarcasm? I don’t even want to fall for the bait if it is but I really just can’t tell.

No it’s not, there’s a select group or people who really like Dany, and really hate the Starks lol, I find them kind of amusing.

[sifth]

9 minutes ago, JoyfulJoy said:

No it’s not, there’s a select group or people who really like Dany, and really hate the Starks lol, I find them kind of amusing.

Same, I find them rather funny.

[Craving Peaches]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:36 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Starks are easily one of the worst families in Westeros  when it comes to doing despicable things. Arya worships inside a deadly cult and commits senseless murders. Jon is a traitor at the Watch. Robb rebelled and began a bloody campaign that killed thousands of innocent people.  

The Targaryens are easily one of the worst families in Westeros when it comes to doing despicable things. Rhaegar abducted a young woman and started a war which caused thousands of deaths. Aerys got off on burning people alive. Daenerys has killed both her brother and husband and now seeks to bring hordes of savages and heathens across the Narrow Sea to torment the people of Westeros.

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Same, I find them rather funny.

It's funny until an unrelated conversation gets bombarded with Jon the Evil copypasta.

[JoyfulJoy]

9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's funny until an unrelated conversation gets bombarded with Jon the Evil copypasta.

But I liked how everyone ignores them and move on, I do get why you find it annoying though.

[sifth]

20 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's funny until an unrelated conversation gets bombarded with Jon the Evil copypasta.

Truth be told, I'm wouldn't be shocked if they were all the same person. I look at a lot of writing in my work life and I notice a lot of similarities, from the Jon Snow hate brigade. Small things, like them all having the same spelling errors, spacing mistakes and other similar things. Plus as someone who's been here for a long while, I noticed they all showed up, at around the same time.

Edited May 11 by sifth

[Ring3r]

I agree that what Bran is doing to Hodor is very wrong....Bran knows it too - he can feel Hodor's fright.

What I don't understand is how the magic behind skinchanging works.  All other forms of magic require sacrifice.....be it king's blood, outright human sacrifice to bring the dragons back, or even raising Beric, who loses part of himself each time.  The faces that the Faceless Men use are all from people who committed suicide.  Even greenseers suffer, typically being frail and living short lives.

What was sacrificed to imbue humans with the ability to skinchange?  The ability seems to be linked specifically to first-men blood, be it the Starks or the Wildlings (both of whom likely share blood).  But....unlike greensight, there does not appear to be a downside to being a skinchanger.  So...the sacrifice had to have been a pretty big one, back when it was first made.

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's funny until an unrelated conversation gets bombarded with Jon the Evil copypasta.

And/or threads about Jon or the Night Watch don't get posted due to the thought of the trolls invading the threads.  This is a fan site, and it's become very difficult to enjoy, as a fan, threads about Jon Snow.  

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, Ring3r said:

I agree that what Bran is doing to Hodor is very wrong....Bran knows it too - he can feel Hodor's fright.

What I don't understand is how the magic behind skinchanging works.  All other forms of magic require sacrifice.....be it king's blood, outright human sacrifice to bring the dragons back, or even raising Beric, who loses part of himself each time.  The faces that the Faceless Men use are all from people who committed suicide.  Even greenseers suffer, typically being frail and living short lives.

What was sacrificed to imbue humans with the ability to skinchange?  The ability seems to be linked specifically to first-men blood, be it the Starks or the Wildlings (both of whom likely share blood).  But....unlike greensight, there does not appear to be a downside to being a skinchanger.  So...the sacrifice had to have been a pretty big one, back when it was first made.

I think you could argue that Bran 'sacrificed' his ability to walk? I mean he didn't sacrifice it himself but he lost it and then gained greenseeing powers so it kind of fits.

[sifth]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think you could argue that Bran 'sacrificed' his ability to walk? I mean he didn't sacrifice it himself but he lost it and then gained greenseeing powers so it kind of fits.

I mean we have to keep in mind that Bran is just a child and might not be fully aware that what he's doing is wrong just yet. Don't get me wrong it's horrific, but giving that sort of power to a child and expecting him not to hurt someone would be a real shocker.

[Ring3r]

11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think you could argue that Bran 'sacrificed' his ability to walk? I mean he didn't sacrifice it himself but he lost it and then gained greenseeing powers so it kind of fits.

Yes I assume that was the price he paid to open his third eye....and likewise, I think Euron must have sacrificed something as well, perhaps his soul.

But what about the skinchanging?  All the Stark children are skinchangers.  There's a bunch of Wildlings who are too.  Where's that magic coming from?  It seems to be inborn....is it just like...some kind of background magical thing that exists?  Or is it like Dragon Dreams, which appear to be the byproduct of some kind of magical genetic engineering?

[Club-foot cleft-lips]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think you could argue that Bran 'sacrificed' his ability to walk? I mean he didn't sacrifice it himself but he lost it and then gained greenseeing powers so it kind of fits.

 

2 hours ago, Ring3r said:

Yes I assume that was the price he paid to open his third eye....and likewise, I think Euron must have sacrificed something as well, perhaps his soul.

But what about the skinchanging?  All the Stark children are skinchangers.  There's a bunch of Wildlings who are too.  Where's that magic coming from?  It seems to be inborn....is it just like...some kind of background magical thing that exists?  Or is it like Dragon Dreams, which appear to be the byproduct of some kind of magical genetic engineering?

Rather than sacrificed, I think it has to do with being close to death. Jojen has his green dreams and I remember him mentioning that when he was young he was once really sick. Then he was visited by a three eyed crow who saved him. Same with another prophet, patchface, who drowned and revived with prophetic abilities. Bran almost died.

 

Alternatively, maybe because they were so close to death, the three eyed crow or some other skin changer warged into their dying mind, and left a little bit of themselves behind when they left. Fragments of their powers, like how all the Starks are a bit like their wolves and their wolves like them. Bran is so powerful because he was already a skinchanger from birth like his siblings, but the crow left him a piece of greensight that allowed for further abilities. 

And, maybe the Direwolves were the original skin changers, and when they bonded with their humans, they left behind a bit of their skin changing abilities. Direwolves, unlike humans, bond for life however, which is why they don't jump into anyone else. or not...

[JoyfulJoy]

6 hours ago, sifth said:

Truth be told, I'm wouldn't be shocked if they were all the same person. I look at a lot of writing in my work life and I notice a lot of similarities, from the Jon Snow hate brigade. Small things, like them all having the same spelling errors, spacing mistakes and other similar things. Plus as someone who's been here for a long while, I noticed they all showed up, at around the same time.

Oh that’s interesting, I heard that too, but started to think there where separate people, as I noticed a slight differing in opinions, for instance, in the thread of who is the most evil family, one them said it was Starks, How ever another one said it was the old masters, either that one troll wanted to make it appear there where different people, or a few of them are real.