EURO 2008

[niamh]

[quote name='Podezine Podane' post='1397790' date='Jun 13 2008, 22.41']And more general comments...


The Dutch were fouling heavily? I remember Niamh said the same in the last WC but I didn't notice it until they played Portugal. :P[/quote]
[i]TOGBUI REMEMBERS ALL TOO WELL THE NASTY AND SLY DUTCH BATTERING OF OUR NAIVE IVORIAN BROTHERS IN PARTICULAR.
THIS IS WHY TOGBUI, WHILE MUCH LIKING HOLLAND IN GENERAL, LOATHES THE DUTCH FOOTBALL TEAM. LONG MEMORY IS A CURSE.[/i]


TOGBUI ALSO IS VERY PLEASED WITH THE RESULT OF THE [size=3]CHICKENPOX[/size] CURSE ON THE SWEDES. [size=1]BUT MUCH MUCH REGRETS IN HINDSIGHT OFFICIALLY SUPPORTING ROMANIA[/size] :lol: . TOGBUI SEEMS TO BE TOO GOOD A VOODOO PRIEST.






I've been away and missed all those matches. Shame, it seems.

[Maltaran]

Paddy, it reminds me of what happened to Urs Meier after England went out of Euro 2004. At least Webb hasn't been forced to retire.

[Jon AS]

And there also was that Swedish ref about whom Mourinho was spreading lies after a CL game.

[niamh]

People are too hard on refs. Without the use of adequate modern technology for some inane reason, they do an excellent job.

I still don't understand why they don't follow suit with rugby and use replays. For a start it would clean up the game immensely.

eta: And why there aren't stewards inquiries like in racing, as well as extensive game-rigging protection, with suspensions handed out all the time after the race is run when required.

[Jon AS]

Yeah, using a replay for some situations (like whether a goal was legal or not) should be possible. But this would have to be regulated pretty strictly or it would completely destroy the flow of the game.

[Zoë Sumra]

I don't understand it either. [i]Cricket [/i]uses more technology than football.

[Paddy]

[quote name='Republika Hrvmaltska' post='1399199' date='Jun 15 2008, 16.08']Paddy, it reminds me of what happened to Urs Meier after England went out of Euro 2004. At least Webb hasn't been forced to retire.[/quote]
That was due to Sol Campbell's disallowed goal, wasn't it? Pretty awful treatment of him too but, the difference here is the behaviour of the Manager and Poland's political leader.
The campaign against Urs Meier was orchestrated by the British Tabloid press, which was wholly disgusting, but there's a part of me that isn't terribly surprised by the depths they sink to.

[quote name='Jean AS' post='1399204' date='Jun 15 2008, 16.13']And there also was that Swedish ref about whom Mourinho was spreading lies after a CL game.[/quote]
Anders Frisk. I'd forgotten that Mourinho had basically incited that himself. That was disgusting too.
Horrible stuff :(

[quote name='Jean AS' post='1399210' date='Jun 15 2008, 16.20']Yeah, using a replay for some situations (like whether a goal was legal or not) should be possible. But this would have to be regulated pretty strictly or it would completely destroy the flow of the game.[/quote]
The English Premier League had contracted the makers of Hawk-Eye that's used in Tennis and Cricket about trialling a system for determining whether the ball had crossed the line, but it didn't work out. I think the big wigs at UEFA and FIFA put a stop to it.
[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7285171.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7285171.stm[/url]
The fallout seemed to be quite acrimonious, with the creator of Hawk-Eye pretty pissed off with the football people's unwillingness to change.
My reading of the situation is that Blatter was being his usual dick self and decided that it shouldn't continue because he just didn't like it himself.

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jean AS' post='1399204' date='Jun 15 2008, 16.13']And there also was that Swedish ref about whom Mourinho was spreading lies after a CL game.[/quote]


except it was the truth apart from the use of the word "see", Rijkaard had visited the ref during the break. it all turned out to be about if Mourinho had "seen" or not ( it was his assistants which saw)., and personally I am pretty sympathetic to the use of the word "see" for things you find out about, instead of just observing directly with your own eyes. I use a lot "when I saw" for things I am told ;)

About Webb, at least hopefully tabloids have not printed out his adress, phone number and discovered any secret mistresses?

Portugal´s team is getting pretty close to what I thought was going to happen

Ricardo
Miguel
Fernando Meira
Pepe
Paulo Ferreira
Raúl Meireles
Miguel Veloso
Ricardo Quaresma
João Moutinho
Nani
Hugo Almeida

Maybe Jorge Ribeiro and Helder Postiga subbed in later. it´s actually a medium-old defense and a midfield-attack who 2 years ago was almost all playing under-21s. Transition.

Loras, dear, sorry, I think you are seeing very clearly potential and patterns which are probably there but which are not so apparent to me. But the thing is about football is that we see patterns and things which are not measurable and language often is not up to it. Plus obviously there are different factors, right on this very thread we all agree in the Holland-Romania the pressure will be on Romania, but we are all seeing differently how that will affect Holland´s performance, some think it will make they play better and other play worse. perhaps it will even affect players differently.

But IMO I think Spain can reach the semifinals, but I am seeing it in a different way, that ending first in the group is better for you: having the ball against Holland IMO is pretty dangerous because they are good at getting it back and are good at moving it very fast forward. Yesterday on the second half, Sweden was sabotaging their own counter attacks, they waited seconds instead of going forward, Holland won´t do that and won´t play for a tie and won´t calm down after a one goal lead. Against France I don´t know, France is looking very unconvincing, take too long on the ball which you don´t.

PS - oh this is funny, Portugal has got nothing less than 5 captains ( of which Nuno Gomes got seniority, the others being ricardo carvalho, petit, simão and cristiano ronaldo), not one is starting this game. So who is it going to be? I want Fernando Meira.

[Ran]

cteresa,

Mourinho claimed that Rijkaard joined Frisk in the officials' dressing room at halftime, a private meeting which isn't allowed by UEFA rules. That was found to be untrue, a fact which Chelsea accepted following an inquiry. Rijkaard attempted to speak with Frisk, Frisk said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss the match while it was still on-going, and left him outside of the room.

[Calibandar]

Well Loras

[quote]I agree that Portugal and Holland have been playing some good football (perhaps better than Spain, I grant), but I say that Spain offers a different proposal. It might work, or not, but at least it is gutsy and it relays on having the ball.[/quote]

Other teams have played offensively and their style of play is also dominant. It too relies on possession, and doing something useful with it. I think your beholding this dominant style of play to Spain only is probably the silliest comment I have yet seen on any match sofar. It only makes it extra suspicious when it comes from you, an excessively patriotic Spaniard. Either you have not seen the other matches, or you refuse to acknowledge that other teams play dominant football as well, in which case you're plainly wrong.

[quote]playing a rival that settles for the draw and makes the pitch 25 metres long is way way way way more difficult than to kill of, say France, that needs a win and is going to open up spaces behind their line, as was the case in Holland's matches.[/quote]

Obviously not necessarily true. See, Sweden may have been defensive and seem content to hold out for a 1-1. But you have to recognize that Spain did not have the class or versatiltity to break the Swedes until injury time. A draw would not have been an undeserved result. I don't see how the fact that Sweden played defensively makes Spain's performance [i]a greater one [/i]than Holland thrashing France, a team that beat Spain on the last worldcup and is the current world no. 2. Again, isn't all of that awfully self-congratulatory?

If you ask me, beating France by 4-1 is a bigger performance than just barely beating Sweden by 2-1.

[quote]And if it irritates you that I say that perhaps against Holland, Spain has a better chance... well, I'm sorry lad...[/quote]

It doesn't irritate me that you think so, but I think your look at football is very hampered, because you cannot even assess the way other teams play, so how can you possibly assess how Spain's tactis will fare against other sides.

[quote]Now you can agree or you can not, but I find it a bit ironic that you above all accuses me of patriotism in footie[/quote]

I fail to see the irony.

[cteresa]

[quote name='Ran Mutu' post='1399257' date='Jun 15 2008, 17.10']Mourinho claimed that Rijkaard joined Frisk in the officials' dressing room at halftime, a private meeting which isn't allowed by UEFA rules. That was found to be untrue, a fact which Chelsea accepted following an inquiry. Rijkaard attempted to speak with Frisk, Frisk said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss the match while it was still on-going, and left him outside of the room.[/quote]

Ok, good for Frisk then - but just pointing out from my point of view, Mourinho got painted the villain of that story ( not that he has not done things to deserve it) while Rijkaard escaped with halo intact, and that Mourinho was not that far off as all that. It was not invented out of the blue...

[john]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1399115' date='Jun 15 2008, 14.17']Apparently, Howard Webb has been getting death threats from Polish fans for awarding the penalty to Austria. Awful, but hardly unprecendented.
What I was surprised at, is that Poland's Prime Minister has been part of the hate campaign against Webb.[/quote]

The President took a personal hand in getting citizenship for a Brazilian because he fancied him playing in their team. These Poles don't know how to behave.

[quote name='cteresa' post='1399265' date='Jun 15 2008, 17.18']Ok, good for Frisk then - but just pointing out from my point of view, Mourinho got painted the villain of that story ( not that he has not done things to deserve it) while Rijkaard escaped with halo intact, and that Mourinho was not that far off as all that. It was not invented out of the blue...[/quote]

He is the villain. Frisk did nothing wrong. Nor, when it comes down to it, did Rikjaard.

Re officials - I've seen a lot more dodgy decisions by assistants in this tournament, namely offside ones. When they reviewed how the offside rules would apply they apparently got rid of benefit of the doubt for attackers.

[Slick Mongoose]

While I appreciate the reasons for playing the final group matches simultaneously, I find myself with nothing to do for two hours. It's amazing how quickly you get used to watching two games a day.

[The Inquisitor]

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1399263' date='Jun 15 2008, 18.17']Other teams have played offensively and their style of play is also dominant. It too relies on possession, and doing something useful with it. I think your beholding this dominant style of play to Spain only is probably the silliest comment I have yet seen on any match sofar.[/quote]

Personal opinion. Irrelevant.

Besides, some other people have pointed out, that why... you know, in their opinion it might be true... So, I do not think I'm saying something extremely stupid as you claim I am.

[quote]It only makes it extra suspicious when it comes from you, an excessively patriotic Spaniard.[/quote]

True, however I do not actually beleive much in our chances of winning anything; so I guess that works a bit as discharge on my excess of zeal.


[quote]Obviously not necessarily true. See, Sweden may have been defensive and seem content to hold out for a 1-1. But you have to recognize that Spain did not have the class or versatiltity to break the Swedes until injury time. A draw would not have been an undeserved result.[/quote]

So what??

In the end we had the class and versatility to break the Swedes in the 92nd minute. You know, matches end when the ref whistles.

So what?? Because the goal was scored in injury time it shouldn't have standed?

Besides, well, a couple of us here think it was a more than deserved result given what had transpired in the last 45 minutes, but who knows... they might be wrong.

Again, perhaps I'm wrong... but I don't get how someone that bitches about teams playing defensively and lauds merry and daring football as you have confessed over the years can say that a team that "seem content to hold a 1-1" be deserved? Because I can remember of 4-5 clear opportunities that Spain missed in the 2nd half, not counting the corner kicks and etc. For some of us, a team that produces that and eventually wins against a tight-locked opposition gets a deserved result... I just can't understand what might have made you change opinions so quickly. Climate, perhaps?

[quote]I don't see how the fact that Sweden played defensively makes Spain's performance [i]a greater one [/i]than Holland thrashing France, a team that beat Spain on the last worldcup and is the current world no. 2. Again, isn't all of that awfully self-congratulatory?[/quote]
:bang:

FFS, Cali, not again... so if Holland beats France, and France beats Spain, then Holland>Spain.

And you speak of self-congratulation... :rolleyes:

[quote]If you ask me, beating France by 4-1 is a bigger performance than just barely beating Sweden by 2-1.[/quote]

And I'm inclined to agree without discussion.

But why do you insist in comparing between Holland and Spain, what are you feeling insecure about?

Let me repeat what I said in previous posts and let me underline it: [u][b]I think Holland have played a better football than Spain.[/b][/u]

There, satisfied? Appeased?

[quote]It doesn't irritate me that you think so, but I think your look at football is very hampered, because you cannot even assess the way other teams play, so how can you possibly assess how Spain's tactis will fare against other sides.[/quote]

Personal opinion.

Irrelevant


Unless of course, my lack of judgement has anything to do with the devilish south-western european climate and the droughts that harbour armaggedon-to-be in these latitudes.


... and please, don't make this a "I know more about football than you do"; will you?

[Ran]

Hrm... it's _all_ personal opinion, so surely everything you've said is also irrelevant? ;)

Lets try and keep things civil, folks.

[The Inquisitor]

[quote name='Ran Mutu' post='1399296' date='Jun 15 2008, 19.01']Hrm... it's _all_ personal opinion, so surely everything you've said is also irrelevant? ;)[/quote]

Incredibly so ;)

[Bronn Stone]

Back on the subject of what I'd hope to see from the Dutch vs. Romania. I'd hope to see the faces of the eleven men on the team who want to win it the most. Younger guys with something still to prove. Stars like van der Sar and van Nistelrooy have nothing to prove and it would be silly to risk injury to them. Or to a guy like Robben with his injury history.

I don't know the Dutch reserve goalkeepers well enough to know if the proper course is to give Timmer a day in the spotlight or if seeing what Stekelenburg can bring to an international match against a highly-motivated adversary.

I hope that the solution van Basten makes is to put the eleven most motivated men on his side and instruct them to do their best to play the exact same style that the team played the first two matches. Attack and see how it goes. Italy and France can ask no more of them.

On the subject of Poland, having seen parts of both games so far, I thought they were at least better than Austria. However, I did miss the key part of the Austria-Poland match when early on the Austrians dominated and had the much-discussed three missed chances.

[Paddy]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1399265' date='Jun 15 2008, 17.18']Ok, good for Frisk then - but just pointing out from my point of view, Mourinho got painted the villain of that story ( not that he has not done things to deserve it) while Rijkaard escaped with halo intact, and that Mourinho was not that far off as all that. It was not invented out of the blue...[/quote]I agree with John...
[quote name='Voyevoda Jan' post='1399279' date='Jun 15 2008, 17.36']He is the villain. Frisk did nothing wrong. Nor, when it comes down to it, did Rikjaard.[/quote]
Mourinho made false accusations against the referee to paint a decision that went against him as a conspiracy, for no other reason than to shift the blame for a loss from himself and his players.
That there was some minor incident that inspired Mourinho to invent his false accusation doesn't lessen his culpability even remotely.

[quote name='Voyevoda Jan' post='1399279' date='Jun 15 2008, 17.36']Re officials - I've seen a lot more dodgy decisions by assistants in this tournament, namely offside ones. When they reviewed how the offside rules would apply they apparently got rid of benefit of the doubt for attackers.[/quote]

[Padraig]

Yes, it is amusing that the Polish have taken such umbrage since their call was offside and the penalty was legal. :lol:

Its nice that we are all getting excited about who is the more offensive team. :) Unlike in the last Euro where we had quite he opposite. I have liked Spain so far and they have definitely deserved their results so far. The only worrying thing is that they let the Swedes to come back into the game when they went ahead last time.

[quote]My earliest memories of international football only extend to Euro 92, but this tournament has been the most entertaining I can remember.[/quote]
True. I think I was afraid to say that since things could go awry yet. But so far so great. :thumbsup:

Anyhow, Turkey to win today. 2-1. I've no faith in Kohler in front. Of course, the Turks are very inconsistent but they did improve in the last game.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Podezine Podane' post='1399368' date='Jun 15 2008, 10.49']Anyhow, Turkey to win today. 2-1. I've no faith in Kohler in front. Of course, the Turks are very inconsistent but they did improve in the last game.[/quote]

First goal for Koller - well struck header. Grygera's pass was perfect though.