Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3

[Lord Mord]

Eloisa,

I second the sentiment of enjoying your posts. You've given me much to consider.

[Zoë Sumra]

Sargraf and LC; thank you. :blushing:

Does anyone have any advice? Should I be patient with the world-building or devote some time to writing a rough draft?

Start drafting now. If you've done that much work on worldbuilding already, leave it - any more is likely to be counterproductive; it's very likely that you'll find you need to change something to make the story work, and if you carry on with preliminary worldbuilding now and later need to change anything, it's likely to breed frustration. Get drafting and see how far it goes.

Besides - only writing teaches you to write. (And I find it's more fun anyway.)

[JGP]

2) Social Structure. People have written that when they have indulged in world-building, instead of geography they have spent considerable focus on working up the social framework, and I'm very interested to hear more about what this process is like.

I first spent a lot of time fleshing out different peoples—races: the Clannish [The Jokung, Tongue-Cut Sparrows, Grass Widows, the Spindle Wights and Dog's Rib] then Tribal [the Kimmerori-- Skozkr, Hjorr and Yggatyrsi; the Kahai-- with the Innusiq and the Feng] tyrannies [Kusen and the Cathedral of Twigs, the UrRoc of Nest and the Raptor of Brood] monarchies [The Hume] and oligarchies [The Hushiur and Wahudin]. Then the warrior and merchant classes [and mixes of the two-- i.e. The Merchant Wolves] lines of inheritance, levels of technology, naval powers and land powers, industry and commerce, craftsmen and women, herders, farmers, patriarchal vs. martriarchal, poly or monotheism, ritual magic, blood magic, magic-magic; cultural mores, etc etc ad fucking nauseum.

But when I turned my attention to the world I realized something. I couldn't shape it to fit them. So I had to reverse-engineer all my peoples so they fit the world instead, which changed their access to resources, climate to lifestyle, industry; regions and borders to conflict, and so on and so on, ad fucking nauseum, again, which ultimately changed many of them significantly. Rather annoying.

But, it was much more internally consistent this time. Easier. Anyway, kinda rambling. Been too busy of late to post much, and I don't think I've ever participated in these threads. But that's a quick summation of how it worked for me.

[Starkess]

Start drafting now. If you've done that much work on worldbuilding already, leave it - any more is likely to be counterproductive; it's very likely that you'll find you need to change something to make the story work, and if you carry on with preliminary worldbuilding now and later need to change anything, it's likely to breed frustration. Get drafting and see how far it goes.

Besides - only writing teaches you to write. (And I find it's more fun anyway.)

:agree:

I love world-building too, and sometimes it's easier to world-build than to write, and it can be an excuse for not writing. "Oh, I can't do that chapter yet, I haven't decided what the major economic export of country X is!" I'm not saying that is what you're doing, but it's a trap to be wary of, and if you're feeling that the world-building is getting a bit cumbersome, then it's probably time to start on a draft.

[awesome possum]

Well, I haven't gotten back to work on the long-gestating novel/series yet, but I did manage to write a short story that's been in my head for a little while.

It felt really really good, and was the first time in more than five years that I've been able to start and finish something in the same sitting (though that mostly has to do with my long-windedness). After a first edit it clocked in at a healthy 17 pages, double-spaced. I was a zombie at work the next day, but if it broke down the creative dam that has been in my noggin, I'll gladly take a day of zombification.

Now comes the part of letting it sit for a little while before the second edit. I'd also like to get any feedback, as I believe I may have found the piece to enter into my upcoming anthology. It's a supernatural story written in the first person, stylized as a letter from one friend to another. Any takers here?

[Jerol]

I started with an opening chapter, did some world-building, did another chapter, did a twenty pages of more world-building, outlined about 15 chapters as the plot became clear, did another 20 pages of world-building and listing characters., and then started more chapter outlines. Now I am full on in the rough draft but I still go back to that initial 60 pages of world-building notes to make small changes in how the world works.

The thread on Malazan vs. Wheel of Time was very inspirational for me. I loved Erikson's opening books but I swear to the gods that I will not make the mistakes he has made in world-building and such. No civilization will be stagnant for 100,000 years, no bad-ass dudes leveling up, etc.

[Starkess]

Well, I haven't gotten back to work on the long-gestating novel/series yet, but I did manage to write a short story that's been in my head for a little while.

It felt really really good, and was the first time in more than five years that I've been able to start and finish something in the same sitting (though that mostly has to do with my long-windedness). After a first edit it clocked in at a healthy 17 pages, double-spaced. I was a zombie at work the next day, but if it broke down the creative dam that has been in my noggin, I'll gladly take a day of zombification.

Congrats! That's such a good feeling! :cheers: Here's for keeping it up. :)

[sargraf]

Start drafting now. If you've done that much work on worldbuilding already, leave it - any more is likely to be counterproductive; it's very likely that you'll find you need to change something to make the story work, and if you carry on with preliminary worldbuilding now and later need to change anything, it's likely to breed frustration. Get drafting and see how far it goes.

Besides - only writing teaches you to write. (And I find it's more fun anyway.)

I love world-building too, and sometimes it's easier to world-build than to write, and it can be an excuse for not writing. "Oh, I can't do that chapter yet, I haven't decided what the major economic export of country X is!" I'm not saying that is what you're doing, but it's a trap to be wary of, and if you're feeling that the world-building is getting a bit cumbersome, then it's probably time to start on a draft.

Eloisa and Starkess, thank you for the advice and encouragement! You're both very right. I'm going to make writing plans for May and try to stick with them. :whip:

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

Suffering from a strange form of writer's block.

I'm in the middle of rewriting about four chapters, and the words, while they are still coming, are coming at an extremely slow trickle. What's coming is, I think, pretty good. In fact, I'm far happier with what's coming now than I was with the parts that are being rewritten: the plotting's tighter, the characters are spitting out snappy dialogue right and left, but I'm lucky if I get a paragraph down a day. It's like I'm distilling every sentence to be just right, and I hate doing that because I know it'll undergo further rewrites eventually. <_<

[sologdin]

not writer's block; that's work. when the words flow like the bowel of a person who gets enough fiber, we may refer to that, in philistine terms, as a moment of inspiration. such moments should be few.

[TheEvilKing]

Well look at this. I've finally found a basic plot for an idea I had ages ago.

Going to work on some intro chapters, introduce the major players. Then I'll work on a more thorough plot outline.

[pat5150]

Well, I've just been notified by Subterranean Press that advance reading copies of Speculative Horizons, an anthology edited by Yours Truly, should be shipping out next week. I'm starting to feel a bit excited! ;)

Patrick

[Myrddin]

Well, I've just been notified by Subterranean Press that advance reading copies of Speculative Horizons, an anthology edited by Yours Truly, should be shipping out next week. I'm starting to feel a bit excited! ;)

Patrick

That's great, Pat. Will it be available in most bookstores and Amazon? And when?

Also, any news on the novel front?

[Tes'thesula]

Just to say that reading this thread is very inspiring. Enough to get me thinking about making my own humble efforts.

Thanks :)

[Ebenstone]

I've gotten to the point where I spend far more time world-building than writing the story itself, although I always write down whatever bits of story come to me. The world-building is enormously fun and rewarding, and I have a much clearer understanding of the context of the story the more I work on the history and so forth. Some plot points and characterization that used to make sense don't anymore, the more detailed the world becomes. It's like a puzzle that I thought I was seeing clearly, but the more I look, the more I see faint patterns in it, and I realize that's why it hasn't been coming together perfectly before. I really enjoy that part of it.

But lately, I've been feeling bogged down and impatient, and I wonder if I have a solid enough world built now that I could try to focus on writing a set page count every week or every month and let the world-building adjust itself in the writing process. I think writing a rough draft would help me better find my "voice" as a writer, as well as clarify characterization, plot, world-building, all of that.

Does anyone have any advice? Should I be patient with the world-building or devote some time to writing a rough draft?

I'm going to write a blog post about this because, like the story itself, the world of "Winter's Discord" grew in complexity the more I wrote.

I imagined "Winter" as being a "break" from my true "opus," a trunk novel called "The Falling Dark" (workshopped on the OLD BWB Writer's Group) and I intended the main country of "Winter" to be fairly obviously "fantasy France/England," but it's gotten more complicated the more I wrote. I've got a Word document open and I'm reviewing some notes...I'll have a link up to the blog about it later today.

As for the present WIP, I did a partial demolition of the first six chapters, killing about 4,000 words. I've been doing some necessary world building stuff on that too. That's a mess that needed to get fixed. I have a student teacher so I'm taking some time this week to work on writing related stuff. (revising, editing, writing, follow ups, etc.)

Got two, possibly three nibbles (two official partials, one pseudo-partial) on "Winter" as well.

So, what's everyone got planned for the upcoming Spring/Summer writing season?

[Alaerien]

I've been tearing through revisions this weekend - my crit partner has been snowed under with a blizzard of new chapters. Approaching the act two climax now. It's pretty much one long string of showdowns from here to the final page. :)

[JGP]

So, what's everyone got planned for the upcoming Spring/Summer writing season?

Spring/Summer isn't really writing season where I am. My business is at it's busiest during those months, and writing suffers.

Still... A few things.

I have a short story called Breca that I had to butcher [re: word count, from about 8,000 to 5,000] in order to meet the requirements for a contest. It was later suggested by two of the judges that though they enjoyed it the most of the submissions, it was more in the quality of the writing as opposed to the narrative. 'There's a strong, enjoyable, lit-element to your writing, but you need to work more on story so your readers don't have to work so hard.'

Further, it was suggested that it would make a better novel instead. Same thing happened with my last short story, The Candle Maker.

[sigh]

Short form doesn't work for me, I guess, but it's nice to know that these smaller stories that take place in the same world as my novel actually have the teeth to become novels themselves. I suppose? Anyway, that's what I'll be working on [pecking away, rather] My larger work, The Eye of Storm, and the expanded shorts Breca and The Candle Maker.

I have a few writers' retreats coming up and a summer workshop-- I'm hoping they'll be productive.

[Myrddin]

So, what's everyone got planned for the upcoming Spring/Summer writing season?

New plan is the same as the old plan.

Finish this revision and then make another pass to cut some more. More, I said. MOAR!

Ok, I've procrastinated on this board enough today. I've finished all my freelance, so I can't use that as an excuse why I haven't progressed much these last few weeks.

/exit

[Zoë Sumra]

Spent this afternoon typing up the piece of crap new ending I (re)wrote the other week. Not quite as crap now. Next job, try to figure out how to finish the bit I'm currently drafting, i.e. work out how to shift Leading Antagonist #2's mood from how-did-our-base-just-blow-up to how-can-I-get-the-most-revenge-quickest while at the same time incorporating a lot of info-dumping that cannot look like info-dumping, which I'd really rather like to move from the first chapter to the sixth (the one I'm on).

In other words, I need a few clear days for this. I have about seven hours, because I NEED to get more than seven hours' sleep tonight... for the first time since March...

[awesome possum]

I'll be pimping out the submission deadline to my upcoming anthology and hope that submissions come pouring in. I've been in touch with the English and creative writing departments of most universities in the state, and the reception so far has been positive. I've received a few quality short stories already, which makes me feel good since the deadline isn't until August 1.

I also hope I can continue on my writing streak. In addition to my novel/series that's unfinished I have three unfinished novellas and my goal is to have one of them complete before I have to focus completely on the reading/editing process for the anthology.

The anthology is open to all writers who live or have lived in the state of Indiana at one point. If you or someone you know may be interested, please PM me for more info!