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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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Awesome episode tonight! Though, I am thoroughly disturbed by some scenes (i.e. Theon's brutal killing of Ser Rodrik, Sansa almost getting raped (but the Hound saves the day!...for her anyway)). Don't get me wrong, I don't think they were bad scenes. They just left me utterly shocked and wanting to cry :lol: All the actors did an awesome job!

I loved Arya and Tywin's exchange. And the possibility of Littlefinger recognizing Arya had my heart in my throat. The fact that many people have been wondering where in the world she went, and then Littlefinger possibly recognizing her? Could be exciting, and interesting to see what will happen. And I'm LOVING the guy who plays Jaqen! I'm gonna be sad to see him go. There's just something about him...

Loved Osha acting the ninja! :ninja:

Dany's ending was interesting, I thought. I know the dragons weren't stolen in the books, but could be interesting to see what happens. Kinda sad to see that much of her khalasar "horde" has been decimated

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All of these scenes with Tywin and Arya catches me offguard. I am supposed to hate this man for what he did to Tyrion, but I cannot help but like him at the moment with his backstory he discusses with Arya. Show me Tyrion and Tywin scenes again so I can remember why I am supposed to hate this man!

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A late thought:: Shae seems to be more central to the story now. I wonder if she will take some of the Queen of Thorn's role, particularly later on.

Margaery is going to take the Queen of Thorn's role. When she said "I want to be the queen" it was clear to me. I don't know if she will take Olenna's role in the Purple Wedding, but she won't need her grandma to tell her that Joffrey is not worth and etc.

But Shae seems to grow in importance, that's true and that's good. I'd like to see her more with Tyrion.

Edited by Cheese Pudding

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You can't possibly still think Talisa is Talisa from Volantis after the scene tonight. She's clearly hiding her identity. Beyond that, Volantis isn't exactly an integral aspect of the Ice and Fire series. I don't think altering the color palette of its people is all that detrimental to anything. It's one thing to make Dany raven-haired, it's pretty inconsequential to make a Volantene one.

I agree that Talisa is much more mysterious this week after the spy comments and that piece of parchment she had in her hands, but I read the Westeros interview with Richard Madden and he certainly suggested, if not out right said, that the characters name was changed to Talisa. They originally asked "Was she Jeyne at the start of filming or was her name already changed by the time cameras started rolling" and Madden said "I think it was something else, but by the time we started filming it was Talisa."

That certainly seems to suggest that her name at least is Talisa. I don't see why, if she's hiding her identity, that she would give her real name but lie about where she's from. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

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Freaking. Loved it.

Dad texted me earlier (we watch it together, but are seperated by a couple states during most of the year) and said "I don't remember the dragons being stolen" before I had watched the episode. So I went in to it knowing that would happen, but not why.

Honestly, I loved the change. It gave Dany something to do, and really ramped up her plot line. Canon? No. Great TV? Absolutely.

Loves:

Bran. The whole 'taking of Winterfell" scene was fantastic. I loved his pointed question at Theon.

Theon - so I hate the guy, but his acting was superb, and although it was awful to watch I thought his killing of Rodrik was really important to show just how inexperienced he is at this.

Arya/Tywin - may not be canon, but I really love this whole development of Tywin.

Dany being schooled by the Spice Merchant - priceless.

The Mob - I thought it was great. Sure, there were supposed to be horses, but I forgot that in the moment of being scared shitless for Sansa. Glad they finally got the Hound in - "little bird!"

Tyrion slapping Joffrey is always one for the money.

Myrcella - thought her goodbye scene was great. Really struck home with Cersei's threat.

Jon/Ygritte - wasn't sure where they were going with that, but I quite like the actress. Loved her shimmy up against him hahaha

Didn't have a dislike really. Loved this whole episode.

Edited by AnikaUnderfoot

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This is sad. If only because who will still be around to tell us what is known?

Har!

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I agree that Talisa is much more mysterious this week after the spy comments and that piece of parchment she had in her hands, but I read the Westeros interview with Richard Madden and he certainly suggested, if not out right said, that the characters name was changed to Talisa. They originally asked "Was she Jeyne at the start of filming or was her name already changed by the time cameras started rolling" and Madden said "I think it was something else, but by the time we started filming it was Talisa."

That certainly seems to suggest that her name at least is Talisa. I don't see why, if she's hiding her identity, that she would give her real name but lie about where she's from. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

I saw that interview as well, but for one, I doubt Richard Madden would give away her true name if it will be a major plot point later on. Plus, don't forget the part of the interview where he says she has a "second" name, which he had a hard time pronouncing. I can't imagine he'd have a hard time pronouncing Jeyne, but who knows.

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I saw that interview as well, but for one, I doubt Richard Madden would give away her true name if it will be a major plot point later on. Plus, don't forget the part of the interview where he says she has a "second" name, which he had a hard time pronouncing. I can't imagine he'd have a hard time pronouncing Jeyne, but who knows.

I figured that just meant her last name that she said in this episode that even I would have a hard time repeating. But I suppose it could mean Jeyne, even though that seems pretty straight-forward.

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Tywin - The dislexia line caught me unaware. I don't know what to make of Tywin as a parent after that.

Friend of mine informed me that people with dislexia oftentimes are ambidextrious...there may be hope for Jamie after all.

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And what's with Osha? Why is her head always cocked to one side? That's strange acting.

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The Spice King scene sort of reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Speaking of the Spice King, has anyone else thought of Vizzini from "The Princess Bride" when you hear the Spice King talk? They both have that same whiny voice at times. Maybe that was a bit of a stretch... Oh well!

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thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

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Speaking of the Spice King, has anyone else thought of Vizzini from "The Princess Bride" when you hear the Spice King talk? They both have that same whiny voice at times. Maybe that was a bit of a stretch... Oh well!

He'd need a pretty pronounced lisp too, but I get what you're saying. :)

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Lack of sex! - not a prude, but that was great. 2 weeks in a row, woot! (not counting that boob flash of potential Lollys)

Just "implied sex" this week. Obviously Osha and Theon weren't jus lying naked in bed together. Loved Theon's line when he first sees her naked! :lol:

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I just get the feeling that the show does not know why we all liked the books so much. I mean it’s not “you-can’t-improve-on-perfection” or anything like that; more like that scene in Annie Hall- I just want to be standing in line and pull out George RR Martin and have him say “You know nothing about my work.”

But, alas, life is not that easy.

Anyway… here is what I liked this week:

The Taking of Winetrfell 1,2,3: SEE!!! Not every scene needs 12 scenes to set up! You start with a quick bit of dialog, you advance to Rodrick saying that Torren Square is under attack then BOOM! Theon is in Bran’s bedroom. That all made sense! We didn’t need a 20 minute set up or plot advancement. We all knew what was going on. Now, I will say that getting Ser Rodrick back into the castle looked… lame (it was we can all admit it- one guy on a horse- just looked sad… and … do, what, like 12 people live in Winterfell? ) Everything advanced naturally after that- Bran’s dialog (“Did you always hate us?”), Osha’s actions, the escape etc- it all made perfect, unvarnished sense. Tight writing, quick scenes, snappy dialog- AND DONE! That was fast writing (again, Cassell’s entrance was very sloppy), but very good.

And watching Theon kick his head off… that was just brutal.

The Tywin and Arya Show: I could honestly watch the two of them for like 3 hours straight. I actually walk up to my TV whenever they are on the screen. Amazing shit. They are writing these scenes with good material from the books but cut deeply with materials that they are making up. AND ITS WORKING! Both characters (and actors) are hitting such incredible points and making it all so believable. And then they added Littlefinger and it was all good.

I mean at this rate, I just want to watch them! Look, let’s say HBO just won’t do the whole series but they settle on this format- Tywin and Arya have various characters from A Song of Ice and Fire visit them and they engage in random banter. Tell me you would not watch that! Fuck, just Tywin sits there, grills them out while Arya runs circles around them. One week it would be Doran Martell, the next The crossbow kid from the Inn, then Viserion: this would work! You would watch every episode! And maybe we would see Jaime again!

(and didn’t know Jaime was dyslexic)

The Hound: So, again, there are some scenes that just need to work or the show fails. One of them was the beheading at Baelor’s; another was the Shadowbaby, etc. Those scenes HAVE to work or they make us know… something is not right (see: Renly and Stannis negotiation scene). Well one of those scenes was the riot at King’s Landing and the rise of King Bread (ha! I kill me). The show captured the complete chaos of that scene- it made us all fear the tinderbox of KL and the unsteady hold this family has on its people. When that crowd went ballistic, we all believed it. That scene hummed along exactly as we had pictured it in our brains (with minor changes that do not bother anyone- no horses, and I am not sure how much strength it takes to rip a human arm off another person). Tyrion and Joff were both incredible. That scene fucking worked.

And then they were raping Sansa. And for a moment I was like, “I think they are going to show Sansa getting raped. And I really, really do not want them to rape Sansa. I really do not need to see that. I really want this to not happen.” And just when I thought it would happen, Darth Fucking Vader walked in and stared making mother-fuckers dead. He ripped out guts, slashed throats and otherwise made men turn into bags of meat. And for a moment we all remembered why we know the Hound is the Hound. The carry-back and the “I didn’t do it for you” was all amazing. Top fucking moment right there.

Robb Stark: Gotta hand it to him: the guy acts like a King. And at this point watching that Volantis chick walk away, I almost can’t blame him for the whole "fuck up the Freys thing." Almost (see below).

What I am Not Sure About:

The New Adventures of Old Dany Targaryen: Okay so blah blah blah… going to see this guy … blah blah blah… going to see that guy … blah blah blah … richest man in Qarth, worked on docks, told us all of this before... blah blah blah. you are angry and you foam at the mouth… blah blah blah … come back and the dragons have been kidnapped. I know – this was what I was supposed to think: NOoooo!!!!! Not her dragons! She loves them like children (even though we have never really seen them together) and they are her pride and joy!!! NO!!!!!

Here is what I actually thought: Mother fucker! :bang:When is this waste of time going to end?! Why do we need to go through this when we know that the dragons will “soon be back in her hands” (second DV reference today).” I groaned out loud.

But here is my “glass-is-half-full” justification: Dany has to do something. Look, in Clash, Dany has, literally, 5 chapters in the whole book (by contrast Tyrion has 15). And in those chapters she does next to nothing until the House of the Undying. And even there it’s all kinda amorphous and shrouded. This (really lame) kidnapping plot is the ONLY way they can keep Dany in the show without making us wonder why she is in the show in the first place. I am willing to let this one play out.

Shae Didn’t Suck Out Loud And Make Me Want To Kill Puppies: Brief, quick, stayed on point, not silly dialog and even made a cogent point that shows she is going to eventually betray Tyrion. Perfectly fine. I hope I can avoid her for the rest of the season.

Cat Stark Back In Camp: I don’t think I trust this. How is Robb supposed to make the most boneheaded decision in the book if his mom is constantly around him and warning him? I am a little bit uneasy about this.

What I Did Not Like:

In Defense Of My Sex: Look, after watching Robb Stark be around girls and act like an idiot, but more importantly Theon with Osha, Jon with Ygritte and the guard with Osha (and add to that in prior episodes, Stannis with Mal), I just want to say this:

You know that if you simply rub up against a man we don’t all turn fucking stupid, right? I mean, watching Jon be afraid of a woman moving near him with 18 layers between them (seriously- if you rub up against a fully clothed man dressed for winter it doesn’t automatically turn hard and make you want to fuck everything in sight) and then watching every Ironman look at Osha like they were all diabetic and she had the insulin wedged in her tits, all I could think of was, “I would totally fuck that” “The idea that men are just fucking idiots is totally cool with everyone.” I can understand some things, but the guard? They JUST took the castle! This guy ain’t thinking, “There is a chance somebody may try to knife me because that is totally what I would do to them"?! And remember- Ironborn! He knows who Asha (or Yaya or whatever the fuck her name) is! This guy just thinks every women he just kidnapped wants to fuck him?

I know its pretty identical to the books, but I didn’t like it there either. I just feel the need to say that all men are not dick-led idiots.

The Land Of Always Wasting My Time: So this is what we are doing with Ygritte? Turning it into a misguided kidnapping where Jon Snow has to lamely chase her? And why is he chasing her? Why do we need this? Can’t you just do all this later? WHAT THE FUCK!? This is empty space! Wasted Time! This is time I could be spending watching Jaime (remember him!?!) or Stannis or any in a long line of characters who do not make me want to throw my TV into a lake!

See, in the books, we know WITH ONE LINE OF DIALOG why Jon didn’t kill Ygritte. We get it- he doesn’t want to kill a woman. Got it! DONE! Simple, economy of time. The show? He strikes on the rock and instead of him saying (in a compassionate, humane way that would make us all try to empathize with this GIGANTIC walking cliché) “Go… before I change my mind, Ygritte” she jumps away and HE CHASES HER? WTF FOR?! ! ! He just let her go? Why is he chasing somebody he just let go? It makes him look indecisive, weak, confused and WASTES OUR TIME! And it makes no sense. At all.

So, instead of making Jon Snow a human being the show made him an unclear plot devise. Well done, A Game of Thrones: you somehow made me hate Jon Snow even more than I did in the books. And that was no easy feat.

Starting to Be Like Dragon Claws on a Blackboard (and in Defense of the Other Sex): Just a little bit of advice to the writers: not everything that comes out of Dany’s (time wasting) mouth has to make her sound crazy. Okay? Why does she have to end EVERY sentence with “I will burn (insert name of area or person here) to the ground!” Its distracting, its TOTALLY UNREALISTIC and its foolish.

And this- how come every woman we have met in power has to sound like that? Dany, Cersei and a little bit with Maegery? Why are we all so cool with women sounding crazy when they are powerful? I find it sexist, frankly. But, whatever, - I’m the guy who thinks there are some men on the planet that don’t think with their dicks.

Here is my point: Dany does not have to be THAT focused or crazy-talking to be effective; not every meeting has to end with her threatening to kill everyone or burn X or Y to the ground. Its really, really aggravating.

And if everyone in her Kalasar is dead and her handmaiden looks dead too… it may be nice if she gave a flying fuck…

This was, by far, the weakest episode of the season.

Edited by Rockroi

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The "Spice" King, who reminds me of Baron Harkonnen, keeps me wandering into Dune/ASoIaF crossover territory :laugh:

I get the feeling that Doreah is selling out her Khaleesi, too. Would make more sense of why she's still around. The quick preview of next episode made it seem like Dany was suspicious of Jorah. Hope they're not moving the split up.

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