Having children ruins everything

[Whitestripe]

...if I found out that I was pregnant right now, I wouldn't get an abortion. This was not a realization met with unambiguous excitement - I'd still be like "oh shit shit shit, wtf" and not "yay, I'm going to have an adorable baby" - but the end result would be acceptance that raising the resulting child as best I could would be the best decision for me at this time.

Ep: My reaction to learning I was pregnant with Baby #2 was exactly that. "Oh shit! Oh shit!" followed by dissolving into tears. It all turned out OK in the end. (It must have since I shared it with all y'all in Feb here.)

Still, when I wrote that everything changed from being indifferent about baby #2 to wholeheartedly embracing baby #2 on a single night, that doesn't mean I gave up who I was the day before. Sure, I'm a different person now that I am a mom, but I was a different person before I became a wife also. I'm still *me,* there's just another layer.

Do I sometimes wonder what my life would be like if we had decided not to have kids? Certainly. At one point I thought my life was going to turn out that way, and I'm pretty sure that my husband would be "enough." I'd find a way be happy and fulfilled, but it would just be a different sort of life. Do I imagine what it would be like if something were to happen and the children were suddenly gone? Unfortunately I do. (Several summers ago, my dear friend's two-year-old son was accidentally killed at his older sister's T-ball game. He was born the day before my daughter and they would have grown up together.) I'd be devastated, but I'd somehow put my life back together and learn how to be happy and fulfilled again.

Honestly though, it probably would be harder to put my life back together again if I suddenly found myself without my husband. Not because I love him *more* but because I love him differently. I'm not sure that I could raise the kids by myself. It would just be too hard. Not just physically and financially, but emotionally as well.

Do I sometimes think that things would be so much easier without Henry and Delia? Certainly. I'm not afraid to admit that, not at all. They fscking exhaust me, and that's the truth.

On the other hand, my life is so much richer because of them. I don't even have words beautiful enough to describe how I felt nursing my children. (once they finally got the hang of it and it became easy, of course) I can't tell you how wonderful I felt when Henry's teacher sent a note home telling me that he got the new math concepts so quickly that she allowed him to "teach" the class that afternoon. I am constantly amazed when I look at the drawings and artistic projects that come out of Delia's imagination. The list goes on, as I am sure it does for every parent on the board. I'm nurturing these wonderful human beings that (hopefully) are going to make a difference in the world some day. They will be greater than the sum of the parts their parents have given them, and I am happy to say that I believe I am giving them the tools to make that happen. However, just like I am only part of them, Henry and Delia are only part of me.

[Lord O' Bones]

That entire post was made of awesome. So was the one from February; possibly even moreso.

Awesome.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

If I lost either of my children or my wife it would break me. But I'd have to find some way to continue with my life. The loss that really scares me is if somehow something happened to all three of them.

[Ser Greguh]

As far as children being violent I do not think this is true at all. Children flail and grope etc, but that's not an act of violence as much as it is the limitations of a cognitive immature creature attempting to interface with other objects through a physical mechanism (its body) that it does not fully understand. Thus, a child is not really trying to strike another animal, but rather the child is trying to "touch" the other animal and does not really know how to do it.

This, and also, it seems to me (though I don't have kids, I've interacted with them more than most that don't) that many actions of children that are often perceived as "violent" are really just the result of their initial fascination with the whole concept of being able to affect things. A transition seems to occur somewhere between Age 2 to Age 5 where the child gradually begins to understand that their actions have consequences, and that the world around them reacts to their actions just as they're forced to react to the actions of their surrounding world. I have a friend whose daughters, she sometimes accuses, delight in upsetting her and do things just to get the reaction. She sometimes insists that that means the kids are evil. I try to console her by saying that they're just fascinated by the very notion of cause-and-effect, and it's more the fact that they have figured out that they can instigate some kind of reaction, and like that very much because it means they're part of the world rather than just passive recipients of the forces of a hostile universe, but that as they develop empathy the game changes. The best thing I think she can do is work to nurture and develop that empathy, which I think applies to most parents.

Not to say that it's easy.

[Eponine]

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/jamie-and-jeffs-birth-plan

[Rockroi]

http://www.mcsweeney...effs-birth-plan

That's the funniest thing about ... that culture... I have ever read.

"In the event of a Cesarean, please practice Western medicine."

[Rockroi]

I have always assumed all parents felt the same way about their children (without the whole depression/anxiety issues crap that is obviously just my problem).

I hear parents say this a lot; something along the lines of "Oh my God, if that ever happened to my child I could not go on living, etc." And I can only imagine (and not for too long) what that must be like. However, the chance the shear odds- of something absolutely life-altering like that happening to your child is remote. Yes, it happens, but I cannot cram my head full of bad, UNCONTROLLABLE thoughts of what parade of horribles may befall my children. Its not worth it.

Look at the "Stranger Danger" Myth (just a note: if you or someone you know JUST SO HAPPENS to be the "exception" to what I am about to say, it actually changes nothing; just getting that out of the way now). People OBSESS over leaving their child alone for 20 seconds; about letting their OWN children play in their OWN yard alone; they refuse to let their children out of their sight for AN INSTANT! And worse- they have now taken to admonish OTHER parents when they see a parent leave their child alone in a car for longer than 12 seconds.

The reality? Of the 69,000 children abducted each year:

* Family members account for the majority of these reported cases (82 percent);

* Non-family abductions account for 12,000 of these reported cases (18 percent)

* Of non-family abductions, 37 percent are by a stranger

So do the math- of the 69,000 children kidnapped each year about 4,440 (12,000 x .37) are kidnapped by a stranger OR 6.4%. Six point four percent of all kidnappings are done by total strangers. If you compare that number to all of the children in the US, the chances of YOUR child being kidnapped by a stranger is 1 in 115,000 or about twice the chance of that child being struck by lightning. And yet people worry about this like it as if the boogey man and Ted Bundy's illegitimate love-chlid is waiting to snatch your kid in his van.

(Quick aside: do you know the person MOST likely to kidnap your kid? YOU!!! And its not even close! The person MOST LIKELY to kidnap a child is that child's parent [usually as a result of a divorce or prolonged separation]).

My wife learned a long time go that you cannot worry about those thing which are out of your control. If you are worried that a meteorite is going to strike your child on the head or that s/he will be kidnapped by circus folk then you will live your life in a perpetual state of anxiety (separate and above the anxiety we all feel from being parents). Its not worth it. And worse - you will pass that fear, anxiety and paranoia off to your children. Obviously for things like pool drownings (leading cause of accidental death among children) and running into traffic etc YOU have to guard them and teach them how to act AND you should learn what to do to prevent these things.

But to endlessly worry- the point of sleep deprivation -is not the way to go about this; its not healthy for anyone and helps nothing. Do yourself a favor- worry about those things you can control; DISMISS those things you cannot and GIVE YOURSELF PERMISSION to avoid even thinking about the cataclysmic but REMARKABLY RARE disaster.

[Lyanna Stark]

Do yourself a favor- worry about those things you can control; DISMISS those things you cannot and GIVE YOURSELF PERMISSION to avoid even thinking about the cataclysmic but REMARKABLY RARE disaster.

Very true, but on the other hand they will give you all of the common diseases.

Like the stomach flu, which my daughter has kindly given me. :crying: :ack:

[Greywolf2375]

Very true, but on the other hand they will give you all of the common diseases.

Like the stomach flu, which my daughter has kindly given me. :crying: :ack:

But that's a great lesson to teach your kids - the joy of sharing!!

[Jaxom 1974]

As far as children being violent I do not think this is true at all. Children flail and grope etc, but that's not an act of violence as much as it is the limitations of a cognitive immature creature attempting to interface with other objects through a physical mechanism (its body) that it does not fully understand. Thus, a child is not really trying to strike another animal, but rather the child is trying to "touch" the other animal and does not really know how to do it.

My purely anecdotal evidence is that my 2 1/2 year old has never tried to hit the baby. However, she has asked whether she may hit the baby. ("Hit Baby K--?" "No, no hitting K--." "Hit Mama?" "No, no hitting Mama." "Hit the couch?" "Yes, you can hit the couch." "HIT!!!")

Lotta agreeing on my part with these sentiments. Little Jax doesn't try to push his sister down because he's looking to hurt or injure. Sometimes she's trying to climb on him and he reacts. Other times he does it the course of them simply playing. Once in a while he does it because he's trying to hug his little sister. He's learning that pushing and hitting are not good, but he's only going on 2 1/2, so it's not something I expect him to understand in the course of one or two lessons.

He also doesn't react out of excitement or anger. One of the little boys at the sitter's was going through a biting phase and Jack got bit on the arm. He didn't retaliate. He yelped and proceeded to explain to Mrs. Jax and I over the course of the next week or two that, "Dan bites! No bite, Dan!" It's actually kinda funny the way he does it. :P

[ZombieWife]

On Good outweighing bad.....

It's not that 99% of the time it's total shit and the 1% that makes you go "Awww" suddenly evens out the scales. If parents really have a ratio that bad, give your kid up and stop being a parent, seriously. That's fucked up.

It's not that bad. I don't care what anyone tells you, it's not. If it is, then what the hell?

I have a 4 year old. If I had to put a percentage of bad/good to it (which seems weird as that number changes daily), then I don't know. Today, it's 85% good 10% annoying, 4% frustrating, and 1% bad. The kid's running around in a batman cape and mask and flinging some stuffed cats around. How is that bad? That's awesome, and she's the cooliest fucking person on the planet. That's pretty much the norm.

Sometimes, I tell her, "Stop trying to put Febreeze on the dog," or "Don't put kitty down the laundry chute," and she drops to her knees like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes and shakes her fist and has a tantrum that makes me put my head on the table and want to cry (or laugh). Sometimes, she yells, "MOM DO YOU STILL HAVE DIARRHEA?" in the grocery store at the top of her lungs. Sometimes, she even refuses veggies or pouts or other shit that 4 year olds do. Some of it really annoying. Some of it embarrassing.

But, there is a lot of good stuff. A lot. She's a person, not a pet. She wasn't a pet when she was an infant, even when I wiped her butt after she pooped (when it was projectile poop that made it onto the wall). When she spat up and kept me up at night.

Now, she sits across from me at the table and tells me stuff like, "Today, at daycare, some kid pooped in the sandbox mom, and you know what? I thought that was disgusting. If I was in charge of the daycare, I would NOT allow pooping on the playground." And you laugh. You laugh your ass off because you realize you have a kid that's thinking and has thoughts and opinions and shit. It wasn't that you helped MAKE that, but that the kid has become a creature in and of itself. Her/himself. You get my point.

The bad becomes good over time. Or maybe it just all blends in. Maybe it just IS. I don't know.

And yes, parents need breaks. Whenever my husband and I drop my daughter off and grandma's, we drive to the movie theater (or to 6 Flags or dinner) like frackin' teenagers with 6-packs of stolen beer hidden away in our cars. We're so hopped up on adrenaline and squee-ness that we aren't sure WTF to do with ourselves. Once, we pulled over onto some dirt road and did the sex right there. Like teenagers. Then we went home and watched TELEVISION for 4 hours. And we made popcorn and ate snacks and did not have to share with our kid. And we cussed and drank beer. Well, him more than me because I had to drive to get our kid later.

I did do the kid thing later in life, so I had lived a lot first, but, sometimes I wish I had done it earlier. I'd have more energy. I think there are pros and cons of each.

I don't know. If you really hate 99% of parenthood, then maybe you're just hating 99% of life in general? This is some awesome stuff, good and bad.

[Kalbear]

It's not that 99% of the time it's total shit and the 1% that makes you go "Awww" suddenly evens out the scales. If parents really have a ratio that bad, give your kid up and stop being a parent, seriously. That's fucked up.

It's not that bad. I don't care what anyone tells you, it's not. If it is, then what the hell?

I think there's truth in this, but I also think that for some parents this is correct and they do, indeed give it up.

Especially men. Because we let them slide on it, to be honest. You hear about deadbeat dads sucking and everyone poo poos them, but that deadbeat dad? He tells everyone what a bitch his ex is, how she's sucking all his money out of him, how she changed when she became a mom, blah blah blah.

And people buy it.

Fuckers.

[Gillio]

well you know, if someone left me to take on all the responsibility of a small child, I'm pretty sure all those things would be true of me, too

[ZombieWife]

I don't think there's a perfect scenario, but if you if you seriously hate your life and your child 99% of the time, you need mental help and you need to relinquish your parental rights and get some help. I'm not joking in my statement. Maybe people are embellishing their statements here, but if your life is full of such suck that you hate your existence because of your kids, then I think you need help, assistance, something.

Parts of it do suck. They suck the biggest, hairiest, most untrimmed Kardashian pie you can possibly imagine, but they don't suck all the time, every second of every day.

[Seventh Pup]

I did do the kid thing later in life, so I had lived a lot first, but, sometimes I wish I had done it earlier. I'd have more energy. I think there are pros and cons of each.

I don't know. If you really hate 99% of parenthood, then maybe you're just hating 99% of life in general? This is some awesome stuff, good and bad.

As someone who will be in their thirties before I start trying to have kids I found this post inspirational. Thank you. :)

[ZombieWife]

I don't think there's a perfect scenario, but if you if you seriously hate your life and your child 99% of the time, you need mental help and you need to relinquish your parental rights and get some help. I'm not joking in my statement. Maybe people are embellishing their statements here, but if your life is full of such suck that you hate your existence because of your kids, then I think you need help, assistance, something.

Parts of it do suck. They suck the biggest, hairiest, most untrimmed Kardashian pie you can possibly imagine, but I think for most people they don't suck all the time, every second of every day.

[ZombieWife]

As someone who will be in their thirties before I start trying to have kids I found this post inspirational. Thank you. :)

For the most part, I am thankful that I waited. I got all the "party" out of me. I didn't feel like the baby took away my ability to drink and party it up and show my tits at mardi gras and get wasted every day and be a general lush. I dunno, I kind of outgrew that at 25 or 26 anyway.

But, there's also a part of me who sees women my age (early 40s) who have kids who are graduating high school and I think, "holy cow, now they get to go party it up again and go to spas and go on cruises." So, again, I totally think there are trade-offs.

In being a parent, I wholly think I'm a better parent in my 40s now. I was a lot more selfish when I was younger and a lot dumber. I actually thought my world revolved around superficial things.

[Elder Sister]

For the most part, I am thankful that I waited. I got all the "party" out of me. I didn't feel like the baby took away my ability to drink and party it up and show my tits at mardi gras and get wasted every day and be a general lush. I dunno, I kind of outgrew that at 25 or 26 anyway.

But, there's also a part of me who sees women my age (early 40s) who have kids who are graduating high school and I think, "holy cow, now they get to go party it up again and go to spas and go on cruises." So, again, I totally think there are trade-offs.

In being a parent, I wholly think I'm a better parent in my 40s now. I was a lot more selfish when I was younger and a lot dumber. I actually thought my world revolved around superficial things.

I like this. I was a young mom, but was over the whole partying thing...my husband and I were both very boring and quiet when our child came along.

Having said that, I know I would be a better parent now rather than 20 years ago because I'm calmer, more balanced, and better able to handle all of the 'out of left field' stuff that comes with being a parent. And that ranges from escaped hamsters (who get eaten by the cat) to underage drinking, to explaining the death of a family member...I would be better at it now.

Of course, I would be a lot more tired, too, so I guess it's a trade-off. Isn't everything, though?

[Cadiva]

For the most part, I am thankful that I waited. I got all the "party" out of me. I didn't feel like the baby took away my ability to drink and party it up and show my tits at mardi gras and get wasted every day and be a general lush. I dunno, I kind of outgrew that at 25 or 26 anyway.

But, there's also a part of me who sees women my age (early 40s) who have kids who are graduating high school and I think, "holy cow, now they get to go party it up again and go to spas and go on cruises." So, again, I totally think there are trade-offs.

In being a parent, I wholly think I'm a better parent in my 40s now. I was a lot more selfish when I was younger and a lot dumber. I actually thought my world revolved around superficial things.

Couldn't agree more. I was 38 when I had my son, had been a journalist for almost 20 years (started at 18, had two brief spells outside of the industry, finished a contract job the summer before I got pregnant and didn't look for a new one), and had had a pretty good life, done what I wanted to, been where I wanted to etc. Kids weren't really on my agenda until I met the guy who is my partner (and son's dad). He wasn't planned but he was definitely wanted.

I think I have acres more patience with him than I would have done if I had had a child earlier (I had an abortion aged 26, wrong time, wrong man etc).

I do also agree with you about pros and cons. I'm concious that I'm obviously a lot older than my son's playground compatriots' mothers (my OH is 10 years younger than me so mostly right in the age range), I'm not as fit or healthy as I was when I was younger but I think I'm a better and more developed person now.

[Whitestripe]

Agreed on the older mom thing. I'd been married nearly 10 years, had a master's degree and a successful career before having a kid. I had all my partying out of my system.