Derfel Cadarn Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If all moridin wanted was oblivion and to no lobger be reborn, why not just have someibe balefire him? The whole destroy reality seemed a bit ott. Which brings up a point: if someone balefired themself, surely that would be a paradox, as they would not have existed to balefire themself in the first place and so would return and thus balefire thenself again without end, possibly screwing the whole pattern up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraday Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Wow. Just finished it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If all moridin wanted was oblivion and to no lobger be reborn, why not just have someibe balefire him? The whole destroy reality seemed a bit ott. Which brings up a point: if someone balefired themself, surely that would be a paradox, as they would not have existed to balefire themself in the first place and so would return and thus balefire thenself again without end, possibly screwing the whole pattern upBalefire doesn't stop you from being reborn. That was a mistake Brandon made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Balefire doesn't stop you from being reborn. That was a mistake Brandon made.It doesn't? I thought balefire burned people right out of the Pattern completely, hence why the Dark One mentioned that he couldn't bring back Rahvin in the opening to Lord of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLU-RAY Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Whew, that was exhausting. For the most part, I really liked it. It felt more abrupt than I would have liked- it read as the culmination of a series that was maybe six books long (even if all the books were of similar length to AMoL), but I think that to some extent that was always going to happen.I wish Fain/Mordeth/Mashadar had more of a role in the book, and that Machin Shin had gotten some screentime. I would have liked to know more about the Ogier and the Book of Translation. I wouldn't have minded a Lan/Luc/Isam scene, although it might have felt shoehorned in had it actually happened. I would have liked to know more about the 13x13 proselytizing. It would have been cool to learn more about Shara. Basically what I love about these books is the detail and foreshadowing and the worldbuilding- the secrets and mechanisms and metaphysics of the world. So, naturally, I want as much as I can get.But, for the most part, I enjoyed the hell out of it. The battle was fatiguing to read about, and unlike the above poster, I didn't think the Great Captains thing was too badly handled; the relevant Captains seemed a little shallowly drawn, but I liked the idea fine. I agree with Guy re: Lan- I thought he really died and Rand resurrected him, although Nynaeve's reactions don't jive with this.I thought Egwene's end was very well done. And I'm a total sucker for anything involving Lan, so I enjoyed his finishing Demandred, but man, Demandred was a fuckin' idiot. Don't we get a line in one of the first two books (from Lan!) about the stories of Hawkwing dueling the best men of an opposing army being apocryphal because no sane general would fight duels like that? When you have a bunch of folks standing around nearby with crossbows, y'know, let them use them.I wish we'd gotten more of Moridin, as Ishamael/Moridin/Elan is one of my two favorite characters. But I did enjoy Rand's debate/fight with the Dark One. It was interesting, though- the implication that people are lobotomized shells if Rand kills the Dark One implies both that 1) Rand can kill the dark one (what does this tell us about the nature of the Dark One) and 2) the Dark One has a discernable effect and influence even when sealed in his perfectly-regenerated prison. I loved the Dark One's envisioning of his victory as a world without conscience.I'm sure I have more thoughts, but I don't really have them structured out.ETA: Re: Balefire, what it does is burn your thread back so that the soul has gone and done whatever it is souls do upon death before the time of death; the Dark One has a small window during which he can snare that soul, and balefire deprives him of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Kilimaro Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well, since we are all here posting on Westeros, I might as well throw this out there: if ASOIAF gets as satisfying of a conclusion as has The Wheel of Time here, then that will be quite OK with me.One thing I was most curious about as I read through the three Sanderson WOT novels is whether it would end up feeling like, as with stretches in the middle of the series, books just should have been condensed. Yet having read AMOL, I can't imagine this book being any other way - and even if that means that the final book turned into three books, this one still needed to be what it ended up being. Thirteen books, however many years of your life you've spent on this series (it's a little over twelve for me), it all built up to this: the big showdown with the Shadow.I still think that, ultimately, it will seem like the three-book finale could have been two books. Certain things still seemed to drag on unnecessarily long, and there were plots that did not have nearly the emotional weight that did most of the rest of the book. For instance, Androl and Pevara in the Black Tower took up a lot of pages in rescuing Logain, who ultimately had a role to play in the Last Battle that turned on his mind, in which we had spent precious little time. The corruption by Graendal of the Great Captains probably played out over more pages than it needed to, as well, but then all of this lent to the feeling of a frantic and neverending battle, which is really more than I could have ever hoped the Last Battle would be all along.The chapter entitled The Last Battle itself is more than I hoped the Last Battle would be. There was no bullshit about that. There was no question of the politics or anything. They gathered, they fought, many died, and it was kind of awesome. Having the final volume just be this makes it all worthwhile. For the most part, everyone who mattered to me got emotional payoff of some sort or another - even if it was not what I expected. Most shocking death, by far, was Egwene. I thought for sure she'd be safe, but then her purpose from birth was to be a foil to Rand, and with Rand retiring into the sunset in Moridin's body, I guess Egwene wouldn't have been needed in that world anyway. Plus it gives us the hilarious bit where Cadsuane is press-ganged as the new Amyrlin.It was 909 pages of pure pathos and tugging on heart strings, and you know what, WOT, you earned the right to do some of that and you delivered that very well. I'm not going to lie: it got a little dusty in here when Noal came to Olver's rescue.Having read some more of Sanderson's other works since TOM came out, I feel like I was more in tune for the Sanderson-isms in this volume - the most notable one to me was when someone thought of someone else as a "bloody punk" or something like that, which I'm fairly sure is not a phrase Jordan would have ever written. This is just what he does, I guess, and while it annoys me when I see them, it doesn't take away from anything. It was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I agree - who left the "punk" part in??Other than that, good book. Demandred turned out to be a bit of a gangster. Off his trolley, but he delivered. His coat made of coins sounds great too.I'm kind of glad the Tinkers didn't get a happy clappy song moment where they healed the land. Not entirely sure they deserved it really, whereas Rand definitely did.Comment a few pages back that Taim is the real hero because he removed Egwene from the story made me lol. EDIT: Worth noting that in a strong, competitive field, the name "Knotai" has joined "Galadedrid" near the top of the Worst Names In All Of Fiction league table. Good work all 'round there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I've read all the spoilers, and so far it's not really dampening my enjoyment of the book. Well, outside of knowing what happens to the Great Captains. One of the best scenes so far is the last charge of the Malkieri when giant gateways open up and Borderlanders start pouring out, instantly making building Lan's army from a force of 6,000 to 100,000. Awesome. Also, anyone else think that maybe Androl is playing so significantly precisely because he was so unknown before Sanderson was given the task of finishing the series? Androl is one of the few characters he would be able to make his own rather than going off of what's come before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I know it sounds silly, but I will also admit that I teared up when Bela died carrying Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Bela and Mandarb: Horse Heroes of the Horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I think the only time I teared up was at Nynaeve's tearful rant at the very end. She's always been one of my favorite characters and you can feel how much she wants to fix things, but she can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Also, anyone else think that maybe Androl is playing so significantly precisely because he was so unknown before Sanderson was given the task of finishing the series? Androl is one of the few characters he would be able to make his own rather than going off of what's come before.I got the impression he was being played up as an indication of the direction the Black Tower would take after the Last Battle, when their original reason for existing is no longer valid. More co-operation with the Aes Sedai, more exploration of ways to use the Power that don't involve blowing things up, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Wolfwalker Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I just have to say that I was left a little disappointed.After all these years most of the side characters got no resolution(Setalle foremost).Another let down was the fact that we don't get to see Tuon much after Mat has Hawkwing talk to her. Sanderson took the time to write that and we get to see none of the results.Had to laugh though, at the Bela thing, Sanderson must have added that as an egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Finished it. A bit exhausted.Dat's a whooooole lot of epic confrontations. Its like a Dragonball Z fight.I... enjoyed it.Its not what I hoped it would be when I began reading the books all those years ago, but it was satisfying.Sanderson tells far too much. There's far too many VAST FIGHTS OF EPICNESS. So much so that you get to the point of not really caring. The finale bits with Lanfear or Fain at the end? I just thought, "Oh yeah, they still have to do die too."Did not care at all.Gawyn died as he lived, a bloody moron. Rand's confrontation was satisfying. As was the solution to the problem, the various hypothetical worlds shown. That was nice. His story's arc in this book was probably my favorite, and I used to be a Mat fan. I also enjoyed Lan's duel with Demandred, Tam's sparring session, Mat's control of the battle (though Sanderson really just can't write Mat satisfactorily), Egwene's shouting match with Tuon, and the initial council at Merrilor. Moiraine's arrival and the tie-in to the prophecy was one of my favorite parts of the book. My main criticism: characters state obvious facts of obviousness, complimenting each other far too much.Still, overall, I enjoyed it. And I applaud Sanderson for his work and courage. I can't imagine what finish this damn thing was like. RJ had so many structural problems going into the last bit of story, there was no way you could finish the book with a perfect 10/10 score.Kudos to Team Jordan and TOR for their efforts. It was a fun read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseresz.reborn Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 PW:Title/Author: Knife of Dreams by Robert Jordan (Oct.)Format/Price: hardcover, $29.95Subcategory: epic fantasyFirst Printing: 1,000,000courier-journal:500,000: First printing for A Memory of Light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 PW:Title/Author: Knife of Dreams by Robert Jordan (Oct.)Format/Price: hardcover, $29.95Subcategory: epic fantasyFirst Printing: 1,000,000courier-journal:500,000: First printing for A Memory of Light.What is the point of this post? I am unsure if it has anything even to do with the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 points out a comparative undersupply in the market for what should be the most demanded book in current speculative fiction? looks like a market allocation scheme, cartelization, an attempt to maintain high prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Alternatively, a sign of lessened demand compared to when Jordan's last novel (and the preceding Sanderson novels), suggesting a fall off in interest since Sanderson took over.But, I admit, the idea of a deliberate undersupply is interesting since there's the whole thing about a delay in the e-book release until April. How would that fit together? Deliberate undersupply leads to relatively higher demand, which means reduced discounts and perhaps more pressure on people to just go and buy the book rather than wait for the e-book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I could surmise that, I was just unsure what that had to do with a spoiler discussion of AMOL in particular. But if I am the only one who is pour quoi about it, then well, the thread has spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I enjoyed it, would have liked to have seen Mat casually stroll up to Tuon and the rest of the Seanchan court with his new BFF, Hawkwing. Would also have liked to have seen Abel Cauthon be more involved. We only got one reaction from him about Mat.. You'd expect there to be more of a reaction that his son, who was milking cows 2 years earlier, was in charge of the Last Battle.Padan Fain. What was the point of this character again? Other than the dagger wound helping Rand figure out how to cleanse Saidin. Fain could have been killed off then and there. Still curious as to what would happen if someone balefired themself, as in would it lead to a catastrophic paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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