Superman and Batman

[Sci-2]

Superman was great in Morrison's All Star Superman.

I wouldn't mind seeing that as a Netflix or HBO series.

[drawkcabi]

Superman was great in Morrison's All Star Superman.

I wouldn't mind seeing that as a Netflix or HBO series.

I liked the animated All Star Superman movie a lot, but I liked the Superman vs. the Elite movie even more, never read the comics though. I would be seriously happy if Bruce TImm et. al decide to do a Kingdom Come animated movie soon.

[Sci-2]

I liked the animated All Star Superman movie a lot, but I liked the Superman vs. the Elite movie even more, never read the comics though. I would be seriously happy if Bruce TImm et. al decide to do a Kingdom Come animated movie soon.

Yeah, the Elite movie was better. I actually think the comic was one issue. Maybe two.

Would love Kingdom Come as an animated feature. Actually Rock of Ages would work well animated, along with a few other stories from Morrison's JLA run.

[Batman]

Why is Lex the most used Superman villain. I mean there are others that would be more interesting... Right?

Sort of. Superman has some good ones that would be cool to see like Brainiac, Mongul, Metallo and a couple of others. but Luthor is like the Joker. Such a good character (when done right) writers loves using him.

[Batman]

Darkseid? Metallo?

Mister Mxyztplk (Whatever Happened To the Man of Tomorrow version)?

Lets be honest, I don't think Mxyztplyk will ever make it to film. What was great about what Moore did was everyone knew he was just a goofy weird imp. Then suddenly he has caused mass murder, suicide and destruction on a scale Superman had never seen. If they immediately brought him in as destructive, it sort of takes the sting out. And bringing him in as the weird, goofy character takes more skill than Snyder/Goyer has, in my opinion.

[Batman]

Indeed. Luthor is the worst choice they could go for.

And watch them do just do that.

Do Darkseid please. or Brainiac if you don't do the first choice.

Metallo could also be much more interesting than Luthor.

To be fair, we have never seen Luthor done right in live action film. Hackman worked well enough for the first two, but since 1986 who has not wanted to see the billionaire, corrupt, genius who thinks Superman is a threat to the world and wants to save the world from him? The animated series was probably the best portrayal, but it could have used a little more of "I am the hero, Superman is the villain".

Also, its not like Luthor cant work with Metallo. He needs muscle and Metallo needs a creator.

[Batman]

Has anybody come up with a good reason as to why this movie can't be called World's Finest? Why is WB registering all these stupid movie titles, there's already one sitting there for you to take.

Marketing, most likely. I would guess they like the idea of "Superman vs. Batman" because it implies a fight. People who know absolutely nothing about the film and would never go otherwise may see the title and think "They're fighting? I have to see that". At least that's what I think they are thinking.

For fans of the characters "Worlds Finest" is a better because 1) its a better title for a film and 2) it is a good nod to the characters histories. "Superman vs. Batman" puts everything out on front street for complete layman's who would see the title and consider going based solely on that. Lets be honest, most actual fans are going no matter what they call it.

[Batman]

Maybe its just me, but Superman is the most boring superhero ever. There's nothing he can't do, and unless you can pull some kryptonite out of your ass, he's unbeatable.

Then, to make matters worse, he's such and inspid boy scout... Geez.... couldn't he have a midget fetish or something just to make him interesting?

Its not just you, but I disagree. And there are a lot of people like me, who disagree. It really does come down to personal tastes. I cannot wrap my head around how people can read Superman stories written by Moore, Morrison and Waid and say he is a boring character. I assume you read those stories and cant wrap your head around how I can love the character. To each their own.

[Batman]

I liked the animated All Star Superman movie a lot, but I liked the Superman vs. the Elite movie even more, never read the comics though. I would be seriously happy if Bruce TImm et. al decide to do a Kingdom Come animated movie soon.

I think Timm stepped down recently, which is scary. His knack for "getting it right" was insane. Lot of home runs in his years in charge.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44577

[polishgenius]

Yeah, Superman can be a difficult character to write well, but anyone who's read Kingdom Come or All-Star Superman and still thinks the character is intrinsically boring - well, they're living proof that opinions are wrong.


As for the 'he's too overpowered' thing - it's such a cliche argument. Post-crisis, there's loads of heroes and villains who are a match for him in a fight (he has some very handy plot armour, but not moreso than Batman). He's not particularly more invincible than Thor, say.

[mormont]

To nick a phrase from Chris Sims: the thing you have to understand about Superman as a character is that he's a guy who can do anything, who chooses to do good.

Superman is the original and ultimate superhero. At root all superhero stories are aspirational and inspirational. They're about 'wouldn't it be awesome to be able to fly/shoot lasers from my eyes/lift stuff with my kind/turn myself into fire/whatever'. But they're also inspirational: the characters we love do good things with those powers. Because, we like to think, if that was us, that's what we'd do.

It would be easy for Superman to take over the world. But he doesn't. He doesn't even make himself rich. He lives a humble, modest life, pretending to be a regular guy. (This is why, unlike other characters, Supes really needs a secret identity: he doesn't work well without Clark.)

The best way to do Superman is to do him straight. He doesn't work well as a 'dark', 'gritty' character - something most of the above writers, Morrison in particular, understand. That doesn't mean he can't be put in dark, gritty stories - he can. But he still needs to show nobility, self-sacrifice, and courage.

I agree that he also works well against the version of Luthor that looks at Supes and sees that yes, this guy could take over the world, and wants to defeat him for that reason alone: because he sees what could happen if Supes ever went bad. Supes never would do it, of course, but ultimately Lex just has no faith in Superman. That's what makes them enemies. It's a great dynamic.

Of course, if that's the direction WB are going in with this movie, but with Batman taking Lex's place (and ultimately maybe winding up gaining that faith in Supes) then this could work. We'll see.

[Enguerrand]

Yes and in my opinion Clark isn't so much a secret identity as the person Superman wants to be, the average guy, the one role humans try get away from. Being able to do and have anything sounds great until you start asking yourself what is worth doing.and having. Superman wants nothing more then disappear into his human persona but sharing human concerns with his godlike powers he also have no excuse for not dealing with the bad things in the world, which put his superhumanity in his face all the time.

[Rhom]

To nick a phrase from Chris Sims: the thing you have to understand about Superman as a character is that he's a guy who can do anything, who chooses to do good.

Superman is the original and ultimate superhero. At root all superhero stories are aspirational and inspirational. They're about 'wouldn't it be awesome to be able to fly/shoot lasers from my eyes/lift stuff with my kind/turn myself into fire/whatever'. But they're also inspirational: the characters we love do good things with those powers. Because, we like to think, if that was us, that's what we'd do.

It would be easy for Superman to take over the world. But he doesn't. He doesn't even make himself rich. He lives a humble, modest life, pretending to be a regular guy. (This is why, unlike other characters, Supes really needs a secret identity: he doesn't work well without Clark.)

The best way to do Superman is to do him straight. He doesn't work well as a 'dark', 'gritty' character - something most of the above writers, Morrison in particular, understand. That doesn't mean he can't be put in dark, gritty stories - he can. But he still needs to show nobility, self-sacrifice, and courage.

I agree that he also works well against the version of Luthor that looks at Supes and sees that yes, this guy could take over the world, and wants to defeat him for that reason alone: because he sees what could happen if Supes ever went bad. Supes never would do it, of course, but ultimately Lex just has no faith in Superman. That's what makes them enemies. It's a great dynamic.

Of course, if that's the direction WB are going in with this movie, but with Batman taking Lex's place (and ultimately maybe winding up gaining that faith in Supes) then this could work. We'll see.

Doesn't Batman have a "contingency plan" for every superhero if they go bad? Including Superman? If so, then I would think the only difference between Bruce and Lex is that Bruce is content to wait for Supes to go bad while Lex just assumes he needs to be taken down.

I would think the difficult thing to pull of on film with Lex would be to dissociate the average movie-goer from their pre-conceived notion of Lex as being bad merely because he's a real estate agent gone wrong. Getting us to see him as anything different would be a hard act to pull off IMHO.

Yes and in my opinion Clark isn't so much a secret identity as the person Superman wants to be, the average guy, the one role humans try get away from. Being able to do and have anything sounds great until you start asking yourself what is worth doing.and having. Superman wants nothing more then disappear into his human persona but sharing human concerns with his godlike powers he also have no excuse for not dealing with the bad things in the world, which put his superhumanity in his face all the time.

That becomes the point. Clark is actually who he is. There wasn't much that was good about Man of Steel, but the line "I was raised in Kansas general, I'm about as American as it gets" really did strike home to the core of the character. Which story is it that essentially says Superman is Clark's secret identity?

[Myrddin]

Of course, if that's the direction WB are going in with this movie, but with Batman taking Lex's place (and ultimately maybe winding up gaining that faith in Supes) then this could work. We'll see.

I'm predicting Lex and Bruce are staunch allies at the beginning of the movie. Neither are comfortable with the idea this super alien can essentially take over at any time. It'll be interesting to see the journey that divides them, with Bruce ultimately on Clark's side.

[polishgenius]

In case anyone was wondering (and hasn't been reading this yet), this is how Superman's character should be. And indeed Batman's, and it's the best writing of Wonder Woman I've ever read.

They should basically get the chap who writes that to take over the whole cinematic universe if they want it done properly.

[drawkcabi]

In case anyone was wondering (and hasn't been reading this yet), this is how Superman's character should be. And indeed Batman's, and it's the best writing of Wonder Woman I've ever read.

They should basically get the chap who writes that to take over the whole cinematic universe if they want it done properly.

I've been reading that for a while and love it. I look forward each week to a new strip.

[Knight of Ashes]

I've been reading that for a while and love it. I look forward each week to a new strip.

Same here.

"I know you have cooties.You're a girl. Girls have cooties. It's science." - Bruce to Diana.

I'd take that over the self-important discussions the trinity are prone to have whenever they're in the same room. Or panel.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman in the upcoming MoS sequel. I'm not too sure how I feel about this, I just think that she's maybe a bit too slim. She could still buff up a bit though, so there's that.

[lessthanluke]

Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman in the upcoming MoS sequel. I'm not too sure how I feel about this, I just think thank that she's maybe a bit too slim. She could still buff up a bit though, so there's that.

Way too skinny to play Wonder Woman for me.

[Ser Hippie]

Bleh...

Kneejerk/gut reaction is that she's not at all what I expected or wanted for WW, and that this a terrible choice...but I'm willing to be patient and be proven wrong. Mainly so I can point out how open minded I was if she turns out okay.