Football: Reds Rising!!

[Consigliere]

25 minutes ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Ander Herrera is a dirty brilliant filthy tough cheating magnificent bastard!

Fixed.

We love Ander. Long may the bastard streak continue.

[Calibandar]

A draw was a fair result. I kept thinking is that equalizer going to come, was not convinced by Mourinho's subs.

I did like that he brought on Fellaini when I saw it because he makes things happen and this is the sort of game United plays nowadays. Mourinho tries to play to what he perceives to be the strengths, Zlatan and Fellaini are 6'4 and quite strong as well,  this will cause trouble. I did not like the Martial -Mata subbing as Martial ( or otherwise Rashford who seemed like a screamingly obvious substitution but he decided against it) would have been pressuring Liverpool's teen right back, which Mikhitarayan of course did not do. That was work for a right footer who can come inside. Of course at the end the goal was scored after all.

Rooney.. well his work rate was tremendous, he certainly know how to keep his chin up.

But football wise, even with him being so active today, I just did not see a glimmer of a great player here.

He's come to the point where he's been off form for so long that you'd genuinely think he's simply lost it. Like Torres.

Anyway, for United it's been a very good series of results of late. Fully back into it ranking wise.

If Chelsea could actually lose Diego Costa, this race may not be over yet.

[Mark Antony]

1 hour ago, Soylent Brown said:

Firmino was utterly utterly dogshit. Yet again.

He has been costing us points with his mediocracy for a number of weeks now. What does he have on Klopp?

 Lallana and Gini were both way worse than Firmino. He worked his ass off and won the ball back countless times, should have finished the chance right when Coutinho came on but he was hardly dogshit. 

[polishgenius]

3 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Fixed.

We love Ander. Long may the bastard streak continue.

 

 

Yeah, knocking Herrera, not having that. He's my favourite player at the moment. I used to be well jealous that Arsenal had Jack Wilshere but Herrera has basically become the player Wilshere should have been. If he keeps playing like he has been Barca will be knocking on the door, but they can fuck right off.

Raising his hands there was a bit silly but in fairness he realised that before he even finished the motion.

[Joey Crows]

On 12/29/2016 at 4:30 AM, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Liverpool consider January move for Arsenal’s Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Hmm..not sure Arsenal will sell him to us.He would be a good addition as a squad player though.Klopp might just be able to take him to the next level,something which Wenger has not done.

As an Arsenal fan I'd hate to see the Ox leave. He has certainly not yet fulfilled his potential, but this season, coming off the bench, he as improved greatly. He still makes the wrong final pass more often than I'd like, but he is  playing with the confidence to dribble at defenders with a eye towards making something happen. More goals and assists than he's ever had in a Gunner's shirt and we're only in January.

Don't want to see him go, and Wenger will not want to lose him as he is a young talent that still has time to develop. Although, with Mane out for a while for the African Nations Cup, Liverpool could use a dynamic player on the wings.

[Joey Crows]

13 hours ago, Mexal said:

Not sure Arsenal are. Spurs definitely.

We're certainly not in form right now, but it will only be a matter of time before we celebrate St. Totteringham's day. 

I think you guys have a great squad and are playing very well, but you can't finish above us. That's just science...

[Rorshach]

4 hours ago, Joey Crows said:

We're certainly not in form right now, but it will only be a matter of time before we celebrate St. Totteringham's day. 

I think you guys have a great squad and are playing very well, but you can't finish above us. That's just science...

Just a heads up: Mexal is an Arsenal fan.

The only Tottenham fans here (that I remember) is Slick and Iceman, and they don't post often..

[Lightning Lord]

Me, too.  But I don't get to watch enough other games to say much.  I was happily, drunkenly able to watch Spurs just thrash WBA.  I am typically afraid to watch the matches, as it seems Spurs' worst form comes when I am a viewer.  This time, maybe because I was distracted, I was rewarded with a delightful showing

Shame Chelsea built up such a point lead while Tottenham were still trying to sort out that Goals = Good.

[Iskaral Pust]

So FIFA made some brief public response to the Matip situation and just referred everyone back to the rule about ineligible if not reporting for international call-up, with no acknowledgement of international retirement.  The local FA, Cameroon in this case, can acknowledge a players retirement but if they choose not to acknowledge it then the player remains captive to the rule.  So unless there is some further development here, FIFA is using its dubious tyrannical powers to grant the local FAs slave-ownership of their eligible players through an involuntary draft.

[polishgenius]

That still makes no sense because Cameroon didn't call Matip up.

It's a ridiculous rule, and only exists because to get rid of it FIFA would have to acknowledge that international football is no longer the premier form of the game.

[Rorshach]

7 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

That still makes no sense because Cameroon didn't call Matip up.

It's a ridiculous rule, and only exists because to get rid of it FIFA would have to acknowledge that international football is no longer the premier form of the game.

Not sure about that part, this article includes the phrase " The Cameroon centre-half retired from international football in 2015 but the national team coach Hugo Broos has attempted to call him up for the Africa Cup of Nations."

And I do believe that if the rule goes, so does the international championships, at least in their current form. Doesn't make it a good rule, mind.

[Iskaral Pust]

Yes, the reported facts of the case are that Matip retired in 2015 and supplied written notice of same, but Broos (the Cameroonian coach) decided to call him up anyway.  At the weekend the Cameroon squad was announced without Matip's name -- making it appear that he was not called -- but now it seems that the Cameroon's position is that they attempted to call him up but because he declined the call-up they had to announce a squad with a replacement.  So FIFA think he's ineligible until five days after Cameroon exit the tournament.

I think it will take a lawsuit, just like the Bosman case, to establish that players cannot be compelled to play for their national side and cannot be denied employment, e.g. appearance bonuses at their club, as a punishment for defying this draft.  The tricky part is that few club games clash with internationals so the denial of employment is tenuous.  It certainly applies to African players but I don't know if their work visas in Europe provide them the same employment protections as European players.

[baxus]

Honestly, though I do understand possible reasons for not playing for your national team, it's still a douchey thing to do in most cases.

On the other hand, trying to force someone to play for his national team is even worse. It kind of defeats the purpose of playing for a national team in the first place.

[Consigliere]

The Matip case is a strange one. Surely if a player announces retirement from international football then that should be that, yet it would seem that if the national federation refuses to acknowledge the players retirement, said player is held hostage to this rule. Makes absolutely no sense and FIFA have been no help either in providing guidance - I'm sure the relevant people at Liverpool are well aware of article five. Looks like Liverpool have two options: continue to leave Matip out or select him and force Fifa's disciplinary committee to adjudicate.

[Iskaral Pust]

2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

The Matip case is a strange one. Surely if a player announces retirement from international football then that should be that, yet it would seem that if the national federation refuses to acknowledge the players retirement, said player is held hostage to this rule. Makes absolutely no sense and FIFA have been no help either in providing guidance - I'm sure the relevant people at Liverpool are well aware of article five. Looks like Liverpool have two options: continue to leave Matip out or select him and force Fifa's disciplinary committee to adjudicate.

I don't think Liverpool can risk selecting him until they have some sort of confirmation of eligibility.  They applied to FIFA for a judgment and got nothing.  They can't risk having results declared invalid afterward.

[Joey Crows]

6 hours ago, Rorshach said:

Just a heads up: Mexal is an Arsenal fan.

The only Tottenham fans here (that I remember) is Slick and Iceman, and they don't post often..

Ah. Gotcha. Well, he's obviously a quality individual

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, with Matip it helps to bear in mind, that his personal ties to Cameroon are somewhat limited. It's his father's native land. And that's about it. He was born and raised in Germany and also holds a German citizenship. IIRC Cameroon approached him during his first Bundesliga season, if he was interested in playing for them. And it was pretty much a thing, of playing at the senior level for Cameroon straight away, or to wait and hope for a call up by Germany later on, which might or might not have come. But it would have been definately harder to break into the Germany squad.

 

[ljkeane]

30 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I don't think Liverpool can risk selecting him until they have some sort of confirmation of eligibility.  They applied to FIFA for a judgment and got nothing.  They can't risk having results declared invalid afterward.

Yeah, there's no way they'll risk having points taken off them. If they don't want to just accept it I think they'll have to take FIFA/the Cameroon FA to court. I think it's very likely to violate EU labour laws but whether they'll be able to get a decision in time for it to be much use I don't know. Perhaps FIFA will fold to to avoid a court decision saying they have no authority to prevent people playing for their clubs if they want to.

[Mark Antony]

39 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I don't think Liverpool can risk selecting him until they have some sort of confirmation of eligibility.  They applied to FIFA for a judgment and got nothing.  They can't risk having results declared invalid afterward.

Think this why they are considering risking him for the FA cup replay vs Plymouth and not in the league just to see what FIFAs reaction is.

[mormont]

39 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

The Matip case is a strange one. Surely if a player announces retirement from international football then that should be that, yet it would seem that if the national federation refuses to acknowledge the players retirement, said player is held hostage to this rule. Makes absolutely no sense and FIFA have been no help either in providing guidance - I'm sure the relevant people at Liverpool are well aware of article five. Looks like Liverpool have two options: continue to leave Matip out or select him and force Fifa's disciplinary committee to adjudicate.

Here's the thing. There's no such thing as retirement from international football.

Not in any formal, official sense, anyway. What happens is that players say that they don't want to play and national FAs usually then don't call them up. But there's no procedure, no formal notification, nothing like that: it's just a case of respecting the player's wishes. Technically any registered player can be called up.

(You can disagree with that principle without pulling out the slavery analogies, by the way. Compulsion doesn't always = slavery.)

That's why players can 'un-retire' and make themselves available again, and change their mind as often as they like. Which is relevant because the thing that's unusual in this situation is the history. Matip made himself unavailable to Cameroon for the '10 AFCON (although at that time he was as yet uncapped at senior level) but then rediscovered his passion for the Cameroon team in time for the World Cup in Brazil. Shortly after he 'retired' at the tender age of 24, making himself unavailable for the AFCON again. It does look rather like playing the system to pick and choose when he plays, and if you play the system, you do lose goodwill and people tend to start enforcing the letter of the law. So the player isn't blameless here, IMO.