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Stranger Things Season 2: Three Musketeers really are the WORST (Spoilers)

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7 minutes ago, karaddin said:

there was a general respect for the sanctity of the queue.

Pretty much that.

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Damn, Dragon's Lair. One of the first arcades that had one I can remember was the arcade at Marriott's Great America. How can one chose between Dragon's Lair and rides like the Demon and the Eagle?

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7 hours ago, JonArryn said:

Well, what you're referring to here is more about human nature then politics. Power structures that is inherent to humans are not what politics are about. 

The reverse is true. That is exactly what politics is, and is about. You appear stuck inside a definition of 'politics' that limits it to particular issues which you associate with particular parties or movements, but that's just what karaddin is talking about - defining politics only as the politics you, particularly, notice and pay attention to.

So, going back to what I said at first, I'm afraid your objection here is based simply on not understanding what politics actually is. Any time two people interact? There are politics: interpersonal politics, if nothing else. There are racial politics in ST, as there are in any work of fiction or for that matter in any real-life situation where there are people of different racial backgrounds. Race itself is, in many ways, a political construct.

But, that's enough of a digression. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

ps it's not that Freud and Jung are old, by the way. It's that they're totally discredited. (Freud more so than Jung, to be fair.)

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6 hours ago, mormont said:

The reverse is true. That is exactly what politics is, and is about. You appear stuck inside a definition of 'politics' that limits it to particular issues which you associate with particular parties or movements, but that's just what karaddin is talking about - defining politics only as the politics you, particularly, notice and pay attention to.

So, going back to what I said at first, I'm afraid your objection here is based simply on not understanding what politics actually is. Any time two people interact? There are politics: interpersonal politics, if nothing else. There are racial politics in ST, as there are in any work of fiction or for that matter in any real-life situation where there are people of different racial backgrounds. Race itself is, in many ways, a political construct.

But, that's enough of a digression. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

ps it's not that Freud and Jung are old, by the way. It's that they're totally discredited. (Freud more so than Jung, to be fair.)

Enough digression, sure. I'm done with this subject after this post. And I have no idea why you are so attached to the word politics. It's a juvenile debate, concerning meaning of words, when everyone know what we're talking about. And your definition of the word is wrong. The word politics is specifically aimed at states and cities. So I don't know why we're even discussing this anymore. 

And no, race ain't a social construct. It's straight up science and things that separates races. Not saying any race is superior, but to say it's a political construct makes me question if you even believe in evolution theory. Soon the leftists wil go after biology too, just a question of time.  

You are clouded by your ideology so it's no use in even trying. And to say Freud and Jung are totally discredited today means you have no insight into what they laid the groundwork for. That there is a debate about Freud, sure. But to say it's totally discredited because that's the point of view from your political side, that just ridiculous.   

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1 hour ago, JonArryn said:

And no, race ain't a social construct. It's straight up science and things that separates races. Not saying any race is superior, but to say it's a political construct makes me question if you even believe in evolution theory. Soon the leftists wil go after biology too, just a question of time.  

:rolleyes: "it's straight up science and things that separates races". It's been demonstrated across several points that you don't really understand the topics that are being talked about here. Best to end the digression without a few more weak parting shots from you.

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I had decided not to watch S2 because it's too much of a horror flick, but I was drawn back in, watched ep 1 and loved it.  I'll probably watch the rest in the coming weeks as I travel for work.  It's a good way to pass the time during flights, except that this show makes me jump suddenly and startle the person seated next to me.

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Anyways, back on topic -- https://io9.gizmodo.com/stranger-things-2-originally-had-a-much-different-much-1820012295

Quote

“He wasn’t originally intended to be as big of a role as he ended [up being],” Ross Duffer said on the show. “And then Sean came into the picture and was just so much more than we ever expected.”

So everything that’s great about Bob: his quirkiness, his heroic ending, his helping everyone out, solving puzzles, it was all added once Astin came on board.

However, that also changed how the creators dealt with Will’s arc. If Will had murdered Bob that early, his descent into possession would have been completely different. He may have even been the primary adversary for the whole season. This version, though, Will struggling with the Mind Flayer until the end, is obviously better.

I always find it interesting when casting suddenly can force - or maybe encourage - a re-imagining of the script that fundamentally changes the story. Each significant role that Bob had was pretty great -- it's hard to see how they would have been able to pull the story off  as well with such a different arc. I do wonder if this change had them delay the pollywog storyline where Dustin inexplicably kept Dart a secret from the friends. That story does feel a bit under-developed and could have been forced out of necessity by these other changes.

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Don't think Dustin did keep Dart a secret until he had good reason too - Mike or Lucas (can't remember which) tried to attack it in the AV room. 

I enjoyed the Billy subplot and felt the pay off - Max sticking the syringe in his neck - was tremendously satisfying. I'll have to turn it into a GIF and put it on loop. A jerk who's a jerk because his father's an abusive is hardly a fresh new idea. But the Stranger Things creative team excels at creating larger-than-life family dynamics. The determinedly idle and emotionally absent Wheeler parents; the single mother households of Will and the de facto single mother one of Dustin...

When Billy's father showed up, I was more scared of him than of the monsters. 

And I definitely didn't expect it when his character first showed up in Season 1, or indeed for much of the rest of that season, but Steve improves every scene he's in. Someone whose blog I read aptly compared him to Buffy Season 3's Cordelia. 

They seem to have flip-flopped a bit about the characterisation of Dr Owens - or perhaps I'm being ungenerous, and what I saw was simply a portrayal of ambiguity and a point of decision. His speech to Jonathan and Nancy, as well as his being involved with the lab at all, suggested that he was rather a bad man. But by the time we've reached the crisis, he was being pretty brave, compassionate and clever. 

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On 10/31/2017 at 1:49 PM, Corvinus said:

I'm also hoping for the story to take place in summer next season, even though that would remove the school element, they could have the main kids attend a summer camp, and thus incorporate other classic 80s stuff.

Thinking about it a bit, I don't think they'll be able to resist starting season three on or right before the first day of high school (and presumably Eleven's first day of any school.)

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22 hours ago, dog-days said:

They seem to have flip-flopped a bit about the characterisation of Dr Owens - or perhaps I'm being ungenerous, and what I saw was simply a portrayal of ambiguity and a point of decision. His speech to Jonathan and Nancy, as well as his being involved with the lab at all, suggested that he was rather a bad man. But by the time we've reached the crisis, he was being pretty brave, compassionate and clever. 

I got the impression he threatened them because that's company policy, but his heart really wasn't in it and he had a pretty high moral and ethical ceiling. He does basically endanger the entire facility (and surrounding area) because he's not keen on killing Will, and he goes out of his way to help Eleven at the end of the season.

My take is that Dr. Owens is a good guy working under corporate restrictions which sometimes means he has to do things he's not keen on, but he has a moral code which he will not cross. A difficult thing to portray and Reiser did an outstanding job.

Quote

 

Thinking about it a bit, I don't think they'll be able to resist starting season three on or right before the first day of high school (and presumably Eleven's first day of any school.)

 

Potentially, although I can see them setting it 18 months later (rather than 12) and having had Eleven going to school for a bit.

If they only go 12 months later, then they've lost a full year off the actors' ages which is going to be a problem (especially given the fact they're mostly different ages anyway) portraying them right. Before the show is done, assuming 5 seasons and 18 month gaps between seasons, the older kids are all going to be pushing 20.

Edited by Werthead

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8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Potentially, although I can see them setting it 18 months later (rather than 12) and having had Eleven going to school for a bit.

Yeah I could see that too. Either way I'm sure we'll get some Carrie inspired moments next season. 

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

I got the impression he threatened them because that's company policy, but his heart really wasn't in it and he had a pretty high moral and ethical ceiling. He does basically endanger the entire facility (and surrounding area) because he's not keen on killing Will, and he goes out of his way to help Eleven at the end of the season.

I think if he works for a company whose policy is threatening people, his moral ceiling could do with some reinforcement. 

Thought Reiser did a great job, and liked his character, but found him more ambiguous than most the crew. 

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Just finished the season. I loved it! More than season 1!

I loved all the the main protagonists. Just thought the Duffer Bros. and the actors themselves did such a good job making them so likable. Will the least though, but not in an uninteresting way and very understandable given what his character was.

Bob and Dr. Owens I thought were both going to be bad guys. Bob clandestinely working for the government/Brenner/Owens. Owens seems like a good guy now, but he could still have his own agenda. I thought he was cast as an homage to his character in Aliens, even though Reiser wasn't a doctor in that, but the same kind of seemingly nice guy at first but really a slimy eel. Maybe Owens is a character like Burke would have been if he had lived past Aliens? Maybe either grown some scruples or gotten smarter at playing his own power game.

Billy I wouldn't have suspected was gay if I didn't read the suggestion here. If he is I do think it's poor form to have the only gay character in the show a villian, if he's not the only gay character it's not as bad. Otherwise I don't think much of him as a character, but he is interesting to me as part of Max's character make-up. He makes sense that he's an abusive older step-sibling because he is abused by his father. Sometimes cliches are cliches because they are all too common. I'm interested in how Max deals having her character put in this situation her mother, stepdad and stepbrother just being part of her environment.

Nancy with Steve, Nancy with Jonathan, I really don't care. However I do like Steve now more than ever, I really like him as older brother figure to Dustin. I hope Dustin gets a girlfriend, I like Lucas and Max being together.

The Mind Flayer's laugh - that was straight up Jabba The Hutt's laugh!

So from the last episode I take it either Brenner is still alive or El has created an imaginary version of him because the had him in a brief flashback talking to her in her "bitchin'" get up.

By the way, when El walked in at the end of Chapter 8, it was just so bad ass! It reminded me of one of the early episodes of "Heroes" when we see a future version of Hiro show up and he gets nickmaned "Badass Hiro".

I did not rewatch season 1 before I watched season 2, I just jumped right into it, so I may have missed a few things by not remembering. However, again in a flashback sequence, when they show what happened to El after she defeated the demogorgon in Season 1 and ended up in the Upside Down, she was still in the school, right? That's where she found that weak area to punch through back to the Right-side Up. What happened to that escape route? Did it grow over? I remember another one from season 1 in a tree that Jonathan and Nancy used. Do you think the Lovecraft Mind Flayer was hovering over the Upside-Down World's school because there is or had been a gate there or because El and/or Will was there right then in the Rightside-Up World?

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53 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

So from the last episode I take it either Brenner is still alive or El has created an imaginary version of him because the had him in a brief flashback talking to her in her "bitchin'" get up.

That was a flashback to the scene where Kali created a vision of Brenner, wasn't it?

53 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Do you think the Lovecraft Mind Flayer was hovering over the Upside-Down World's school because there is or had been a gate there or because El and/or Will was there right then in the Rightside-Up World?

I think it's more the latter, since as you said: previous smaller gates had appeared in various places, including the Byers' home and the woods, and then disappeared without leaving a trace.

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4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Before the show is done, assuming 5 seasons and 18 month gaps between seasons, the older kids are all going to be pushing 20.

I think I read that the plan is four seasons total. 

If that's the case, and they can get production down to 12 months for the last two seasons; they can wrap it up and have the kids plausibly still underclassmen in high school.

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4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Before the show is done, assuming 5 seasons and 18 month gaps between seasons, the older kids are all going to be pushing 20.

Not implausible for them to pull off - Joe Kerry (Steve) is already 25 - but potentially difficult if one of them has a serious growth spurt in the middle of filming.

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3 hours ago, dog-days said:

I think if he works for a company whose policy is threatening people, his moral ceiling could do with some reinforcement. 

Yeah, I think there’s probably just a bit of grey area between being a good guy and being comfortable with offhandedly killing a child you’ve spent a year in reasonably close contact with. Considering the nature of the organisation he’s risen to a presumably fairly senior position in he’s probably not a good guy by most standards.

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11 minutes ago, Fez said:

I think I read that the plan is four seasons total. 

If that's the case, and they can get production down to 12 months for the last two seasons; they can wrap it up and have the kids plausibly still underclassmen in high school.

It's also worth considering that the original plan was to have an IT like time jump after season one. So season four could feature adult versions of the characters. Then they could just do flashbacks to whenever and still use the younger actors. 

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27 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

That was a flashback to the scene where Kali created a vision of Brenner, wasn't it?

I knew I was missing something!

I was just letting Netflix resume ST with the next chapter each time I went back to it. It totally skipped me over chapter 7 for some reason. I was thinking the whole prologue with 008 was just put there as more set up for S3 and the flashback to El and her more of the same. What El had been doing and how she ended up dressed like that would be explained in S3 like the episode in S2 that explained what happened to her after she killed the demogorgon.

So I got one more episode to watch :) 

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Is anyone else not convinced that Dr. Brenner is actually Eleven's biological father? In the first season, we learned that the mothers underwent psychedelic experiments before being impregnated. With that in mind, it makes me think that it would make more sense if the sperm donors also underwent similar experiments. I know most people aren't feeling too keen on Eleven finding her family after the Chicago arc, but I could see her finding her "real" father creating some interesting twists. 

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