Lollygag

So, what's your head canon?

58 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

Marchen lords

Just a little correction - that's "Marcher" lords, not "Marchen". For "Dornish Marshes". And thanks for the extensive discussion of Barristan Selmy's lineage! I had no idea. This could end up being extremely interesting!

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3 hours ago, zandru said:

Just a little correction - that's "Marcher" lords, not "Marchen". For "Dornish Marshes". And thanks for the extensive discussion of Barristan Selmy's lineage! I had no idea. This could end up being extremely interesting!

I'm a foregner, English is my 4th language. So I don't care much whether they are Marchen lords or Marcher lords. But thanks for correcting.

The main reason why I think that Barristan could be a Blackfyre, is because there, you know where, They killed him long ago, and his death was totally unneeded. They also cut out from there, all mentioning of Blackfyres, or any conspiracies that may go beyond Varys or Littlefinger. And Varys there is an idiot. This differences are implying that in the books path of Barristan, Varys and Littlefinger will be totally different.

For example in the books there are small things, that hint about connection between Littlefinger and Blackfyres (or whoever are those conspirators from Essos are):

Varys knew 8 of Robert's bastards. Who told Littlefinger about them, and thus gave him an information, that started War of Five Kings? -> Varys.

Who gave Tears of Lys to LF? My guess it was Mandon Moore. Who I think is a spy of Blackfyres, or Varys' ex little bird.

Spoiler

"He came from the Vale of Arryn and was brought to King's Landing by Lord Jon Arryn. King Robert I Baratheon made him a member of the Kingsguard. Neither of the two loved him very much, though."

"Ser Mandon is among the escort for the party that sees Princess Myrcella off to Dorne."

"During the battle of the Blackwater, Ser Mandon is assigned to guard King Joffrey and Tyrion Lannister. However, when the king leaves for the Three Whores, Ser Mandon stays with Tyrion and accompanies him and Podrick Payne on the way from the Mud Gate to the King's Gate, after information has been received that enemy forces intend to batter down the King's Gate with a ram. Tyrion tries to talk Sandor Clegane, who is in charge at the King's Gate, into leading his men in a sortie against the enemies, receiving a dismissive answer. When Ser Mandon tells the Hound that the King's Hand commands him, the answer is: "Bugger the King's Hand."[9] While the fighting outside the walls is underway, Ser Mandon attempts to kill Tyrion, managing to cause a severe injury to his face, but Podrick pushes him into the Blackwater Rush, where he drowns under the weight of his armor.[1]

Tyrion is later convinced that Ser Mandon tried to kill him on Queen Cersei's orders.[10]"

"Tyrion meets Varys for the first time since his injury and the Spider asks him whether the visit has to do with the inquiries Ser Bronn has been making about "the gallant Ser Mandon Moore." Tyrion prompts Varys to share information about Ser Mandon, including that he was brought to King's Landing by Lord Jon Arryn and made a member of the Kingsguard by King Robert I, although both didn't love him much, that his brothers in the Kingsguard didn't warm up to him and that he wasn't the kind of man the smallfolk cheered for in a tourney, his considerable prowess notwithstanding. Varys quotes Ser Barristan Selmy saying once that "Ser Mandon had no friend but his sword and no life but his duty", and Varys suspects that this wasn't meant altogether as praise, although it would sound like Ser Mandon represented the exact qualities sought in members of the Kingsguard. However, nothing of this is new to Tyrion, as Bronn's inquiries have yielded the same results. Tyrion wonders whether Varys knows more than he is prepared to say.[3]"

Tyrion thought that Cersei ordered Mandon Moore to kill him. While Cersei thought that Gerold Dayne tryed to kill Mircella on Tyrion's order. Could be that both of them (Mandon Moore and Gerold Dayne) are working for Blackfyres/Varys. Same as Balon Swann and his brother Donnel Swann, Jalabhar Xho, Chataya, Salladhor Saan, Daario Naharis, Aurane Waters. <- I'm writing it here, to have evidence that I suspected them to be part of Big Conspiracy, when in next book it will turn out to be correct.

Littlefinger brought Ned to brothel where lived one of Robert's bastards, Barra. Varys knew about secret passage that leads to that brothel. So Varys and owner of that brothel, Chataya, are connected. She is from Summer Isles, same as Jalabhar Xho. Anguy visited that brothel, and spent there a lot of time and money, that he won at Hand's Tourney. At that tournament he was competing against Jalabhar Xho and Balon Swann. All of them are spyes of Blackfyres, and used first tournament, and then brothel, as a cover, to pass information to their masters.

Edited by Megorova

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Jonerys + their child are the 3 heads of the dragon

There will be a Green Wedding

Cersei will be the last ruler of KL before Dany comes

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12 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Another thing I've been wondering, what with GRRM's facility with killing off characters etc etc, is whether this whole story is the swansong of human habitation of Westeros and the Others sweep down and destroy the whole lot by the end of the series....

Other works of GRRM, that are not about knights, dragons and magic, are sci-fi about space and different planets: Dying of the Light, Nightflyers, Songs of Stars and Shadows, Hunter's Run, A Song for Lya, etc.

Could be that Giants, Children of the Forest, First Men, Andals, and Valyrians are aliens, that arrived to Planetos on giant spaceship, that is currently hanging invisible in the sky, in stealth mode, near Asshai, and is casting huge shadow on lands below.

Like in Northern mythology (about Thor, Odin, Loki, Ragnarok): Alfheimr home of Light Elves - Valyrians. Nioavellir home of Dark Elves (dwarfs) - Children of the Forest. Asgard home of Aesir - Andals. Jotunheimr home of Jotnar - Giants. Vanaheimr home of the Vanir - First Men.

So "all men must die", because they are an alien invaders. While the Others are original inhabitants of Planetos.

11 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

The conclusion to the books will include the end of magic.  The up-side of this is that Westeros will finally have natural seasons dictated by the tilt of Planetos' axis and it's orbit around it's sun. 

Could be that climate of Planetos is controlled by terraforming device, that is still active on that spaceship near Asshai.

Edited by Megorova

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Here is some of my own head-canon...

 

Azor Ahai and other god-like figures from the ancient histories were legends as opposed to historical figures.  Their return is about as likely as Hercules or Thor saving the day in the here and now.  This included the Amethyst Empress and the Bloodstone Emperor. 

Rickon will become the King of the North with a regent appointed to rule on his behalf until he is old enough rule on his own.  His regent may be Sansa but could be a surviving member of one of the houses loyal to house Stark.

Robert Strong will lose his fight when he acts as champion for Cersei in her Trial by Combat, hopefully to his brother Sandor. 

The conclusion to the books will include the end of magic.  The up-side of this is that Westeros will finally have natural seasons dictated by the tilt of Planetos' axis and it's orbit around it's sun.  But no more magic means no more magical creatures like dragons or direwolves.  No more weirnet, no creepy Bloodraven.  No more Iron Throne. 

Edited by White Ravens

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Jon will study Necromancy in order to learn more about WW and the two bodies that he brought back through the Wall with him will rise when he wakes up.

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- Mance is Jon's father

- Rhaegar was planning on sacrificing all of his children to hatch dragons

-Arya will live out a completely happy, healthy life with no residual mental illnesses from the trauma she has suffered. 

Ok the last one is just my wishful thinking. I am a sweet summer child. 

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On 04/12/2017 at 6:11 PM, Rufus Snow said:

I think I saw a fleeting reference to the maesters measuring day length (in one of the passages about the white ravens) to determine the seasons, which was part of my confusion over how the seasons worked. So I don't think they control it, just watch it.

I definitely wondered about that myself.  The only thing I could think of is that they use day length (and potentially sun's height in sky) as a measure of seasons, but use the position of the stars to measure a year (i.e. a stellar year).  This means that whatever messed up the seasons didn't alter the motion of Planetos round its sun, but did affect the position of the sun in the sky.  That would explain how the maesters are able to measure years and seasons independently.

Then I started worrying how that might work and if the southern hemisphere had opposite seasons, and led me to the conclusion 'it's magic'.

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R+L=J

Aegon=fAegon

Bloodraven=3EC=good

Euron will drown before the walls of Old Town in his VS armour, because Leyton Hightower + Citadel have discovered gunpowder/Planetos equivalent. They saw you needed Dragons to rule peacefully and developed the next best thin. 

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Arya Stark will never cease to be Arya Stark. She'll go back to Westeros. She won't kill everybody that's on her list, she won't even seek it, but they will all eventually die. 

Jon is not dead and will not need to be resurrected. He's severely injured though, and the stabbing will have some physical consequence for life. I'd like him to die and come back just not to endure his POVs anymore though. He's really annoying. He never listens!!! He's always interrupting people before they finish talking and having intern monologs that take him nowhere. I've lost all sympathy for him by ADWD.

The Others are death impersonated. GRRM doesn't write one-sided characters because he doesn't believe there are one-sided people, but the others aren't people. There's nothing good about them. They represent a severe imbalance in the world (a la global warming, nothing good about that).

Jon will leave the watch. By the end of the last book there will be no more watch at all. 

Sansa will be involved in LF downfall - even if she doesn't realize it, thought I think she will have and active part to play 

"SanSan" will never happen. 

Arya will meet Gendry again, but they won't be romantically involved.

Cersei will die like Robert and Tywin - someway that can make the smallfolk laugh, not really a dramatic moment (like chocked by either of her brothers, that won't happen)

Daenerys - I truly have no idea. I do hope she gets to Volantis though. Or even better, I'd love to hear about slaves revolting and then aviu the freedpeople of volantis organizing themselves politically even before she ever reaches them. That seems more likely in Volantis than it was in slaver's bay.

Aegon will briefly sit the Iron Throne. Daenerys never will. 

There will be no united seven kingdons by the end of the last book. Will have smaller kingdoms, but more stable than those of before the conquest. Rich merchants will be more important than lords. Gold will be more important than lands. It will be the begging of the end of westerosi feudalism. 

Nymeria and her pack will be important in the fight against the others. 

 

 

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- Jon will, unwittingly, end up lord of Winterfell and perhaps also "da king in da norf!" He knows nothing and is a magnet for things he doesn't want; he wants no relations with the opposite sex, he ends up with Ygritte, and then with Val and Alys. He wants no responsibility, he ends up being steward, night's watch's spy in Mance's host, commander in chief of Wall's defense and Lord Commander. Whatever he doesn't want, he gets so Winterfell he wanted but gave up on he'll get also.

- Sansa will return North, though I don't think she'll have an army of Valeman with her.

- Stannis wins against Boltons but dies in a flaminng fashion, in the latter part of TWOW perhaps even early ADOS.

 

Now for some foily pots:

- Mance is Mance and Daario is Daario, shocking, I know.

- Barristan + Rhaella = Danaerys Storm(born), cause this is the ASOIAF forum.

- Valonqar is Val on qar(snow)

 

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4 hours ago, oldbus said:

I definitely wondered about that myself.  The only thing I could think of is that they use day length (and potentially sun's height in sky) as a measure of seasons, but use the position of the stars to measure a year (i.e. a stellar year).  This means that whatever messed up the seasons didn't alter the motion of Planetos round its sun, but did affect the position of the sun in the sky.  That would explain how the maesters are able to measure years and seasons independently.

Then I started worrying how that might work and if the southern hemisphere had opposite seasons, and led me to the conclusion 'it's magic'.

Woo hoo - I've finally found the searchoficeandfire site, so here's the bit I remembered:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Prologue

Shireen gave a brave little nod. "Mother said the white raven means it's not summer anymore."
"That is so, my lady. The white ravens fly only from the Citadel." Cressen's fingers went to the chain about his neck, each link forged from a different metal, each symbolizing his mastery of another branch of learning; the maester's collar, mark of his order. In the pride of his youth, he had worn it easily, but now it seemed heavy to him, the metal cold against his skin. "They are larger than other ravens, and more clever, bred to carry only the most important messages. This one came to tell us that the Conclave has met, considered the reports and measurements made by maesters all over the realm, and declared this great summer done at last. Ten years, two turns, and sixteen days it lasted, the longest summer in living memory."

 

 
... and it seems it's not just the weather they measure:

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn I

.... A wealth of rustling leaves still clung to the branches of the trees, all ignorant of the word the white raven had brought to Riverrun a fortnight past. Autumn had come, the Conclave had declared, but the gods had not seen fit to tell the winds and woods as yet....

 

 

 
"search" will be a great help in separating out those things I remember from the text and those from 'the other place'...

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Great topic @Lollygag, I really enjoyed reading everyone's responses.  Some were new ideas to me or things I hadn't thought about, and many mirror my own ideas.  Here is my "head canon"...

- Stannis and Danerys never meet or battle each other.

- Jaime is leaving that meeting with LSH alive, and he sacrifices his life to deal the crushing blow to the Others in battle.

- LSH is not important and will have few scenes - she only exists to show Arya how ugly the embodiment of vengeance and death looks, and Arya will give LSH the gift of mercy.

- Sansa will be directly involved in killing LF.

- Bran and Bloodraven are up to no good.

- Jon is not dead but would be out of commission for at least 2/3 of TWOW.

- Aegon is defeated by Danerys will Jon and Stannis battle the Others.

- Danerys dies in childbirth.

- TWOW is never coming out.

Edited by Lucius Lovejoy
Forgot one

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I try my best not to do this but I'll be somewhat shocked if:

-There isn't a conspiracy that the COTF are trying to get rid of humanity

-There isn't an elaborate Dornish Master Plan

-Littlefinger's story gets wrapped up long before the end

-Jaime doesn't make it to the end/near-end of the story

-Brieaime doesn't happen

-Dany doesn't have dragons stolen

-Aegon doesn't take control of KL

-Euron survives the series

-Sansa dies

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I don't really think "headcannon" is the same thing as "how I think the story will play out in the future". Like my headcannon is R+L = J. Its what I take to be true based on things present in the text. Or things that I fill in the whole for like... my head cannon is that Cersei lied to Jaime and had more of a hand in sending Joff to hire a catspaw to assassinate Bran. 

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I thought of another one: Daemon Targaryen had a Valyrian fetish, which was likely tied to his own narcissism. In the short-term, it didn't seem to matter much to him (such as during his affair with Nettles), but if you look at Daemon's four long-lasting relationships (three wives and a mistress), all of them at least started out well, with the exception of Rhea Royce, the only woman who, as far as we know, did not have a traditional Valyrian appearance.

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On 07/12/2017 at 3:44 AM, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 

- LSH is not important and will have few scenes - she only exists to show Arya how ugly the embodiment of vengeance and death looks, and Arya will give LSH the gift of mercy.

 

I'd LOVE that to happen! 

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Jon has purple eyes and has to wear glasses, Varys is a merman, Little Finger is Sansa's father. 

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