NFL. vol 3

[Trebla]

I think Cutler is the real deal, I just don't think the line is. Martz's offense will inprove your team by a touchdown but will get the QB killed. There is a stat out there that shows that his teams almost always lead the league in sacks allowed. They live in die by throwing downfield with only 5 to 6 blockers. In 3 games this year Cutler has already taken a beating. His arm and feet have bailed the tackles out a bunch of times.

V-Jax would make no sense for the Bears. I actually believe Martz now when he said in the off-season that he thought this corp was perfect for his offense. They are fast little guys who seem to run good routes. And while they are doing good now, they will need those picks to re-tool this team. They are getting long in the tooth in the interior offensive line and their secondary is dangerously thin.

[sToNED_CAT]

The Bears win despite him.

He's awful. It will show. Nothing that has happened yet this year means anything. Form your opinions in November.

Sure Cutler could have played better, but let's face it - he has the probably the worst supporting offensive cast in whole NFL. I'm actually impressed that Bears are able to move the ball with Oline that can't block, runnning back that can't run and 3 slot recievers.

Or can someone name NFL team with worse combination of Oline/RB/WR? Oakland maybe, but who else?

[Bronn Stone]

Sure Cutler could have played better, but let's face it - he has the probably the worst supporting offensive cast in whole NFL. I'm actually impressed that Bears are able to move the ball with Oline that can't block, runnning back that can't run and 3 slot recievers.

Or can someone name NFL team with worse combination of Oline/RB/WR? Oakland maybe, but who else?

I think Forte could be very successful behind a good OL. The Bears WR are as wretched as you suggest. I'd say their TE are average, but there are plenty worse.

But I'm sure that all three fans of the Jacksonville Jaguars would swap units with you in a minute.

[sToNED_CAT]

I think Forte could be very successful behind a good OL. The Bears WR are as wretched as you suggest. I'd say their TE are average, but there are plenty worse.

But I'm sure that all three fans of the Jacksonville Jaguars would swap units with you in a minute.

At least Jaguars have good RB.

And Forte sucks, plain and simple. He wouldn't break a tackle if his life depended on it. If team needs to get 1 yard, you can be sure Forte WILL NOT make it. Even his pass catching abilities are overrated. Green Bay's runnig game sucked last night,but at least they have excuse, because their RB was injuried. Bears running backs are healthy and their production was comparable. Cutler was leading rusher of the game with 37 yards.

[awesome possum]

I saw him rush a throw when pressure was coming at him on the first one. He shouldn't have tried to make that throw at all.

The second was just an underthrown ball. The receiver was smart enough to tangle himself up with a rookie DB when the ball was already in the air. There was nothing on purpose about that crap. Come on now. Don't tell us Cutler's piss is actually wine.

I don't think that's what I'm doing at all. A few people have preformed opinions on Jay Cutler and even watching him play good football won't change their mind. Now, I won't call his first half play "good" by any stretch of the imagination. Until that final TD drive of the half he looked a lot like the Cutler we'd seen in night games last season. But after that he played solid even while he was still under almost constant pressure.

I'll give you the first pass. He did try to force it knowing he was about to get killed. Regarding the 2nd "underthrown" ball, replays showed Cutler tossing the ball and then throwing his hands up in a celebratory manner. This was before the flags were thrown and after his ball had just been intercepted. You're telling me he didn't know what he was doing? If a QB is celebrating after his ball was just caught by the other team, he's either mentally deranged or knew he was setting up a PI call with the throw. I know he's been hit a lot so far, but not that much.

So, I'm not calling his piss wine. I'm saying what he's put on the table so far this year has been palatable while a few haters claim he's taking a shit on my plate. I'm also saying my team is 3-0 and part of that winning record has come about because of QB play.

This is a case of stats lying. I'm not taking sides on the "Is He Good" argument, but a very large percentage of Cutler's numbers are coming from the dump off passes that stand in lieu of a running game in the Martz office. These take little if any skill on the part of the quarterback.

So what? Several of Tom Brady's passing TDs in his record-breaking season came from short rinky-dink dump passes to Wes Welker that he turned into big gains for the TD. Several more came from just tossing it in the air and Randy Moss somehow coming down with the ball because of his freakish skill. Should there be an asterisk next to Brady's name in the record books because those passes took little skill on his part?

I think Cutler is the real deal, I just don't think the line is. Martz's offense will inprove your team by a touchdown but will get the QB killed. There is a stat out there that shows that his teams almost always lead the league in sacks allowed. They live in die by throwing downfield with only 5 to 6 blockers. In 3 games this year Cutler has already taken a beating. His arm and feet have bailed the tackles out a bunch of times.

The bottom will almost surely fall out on the Bears sometime this season. As good as the last two weeks have felt, I still went into both games believing the Bears would lose. After the Bye it's Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles, Lions, Patriots, Vikings, Jets, Packers. Unless the luck remains, the team stays injury-free, and they play at the same level or above, the end of the season is going to be ugly.

And it starts at the offensive line. It doesn't matter how tough you are, you can only take a beating for so long before it affects your game. There's also the chance that Urlacher gets hurt and our defense instantly deflates. There's a great chance the Bears still finish at .500 or worse.

I recognize that, but goddamnit, I'm going to enjoy this while I can. My team, the CHICAGO BEARS is currently the best in the NFC. Our passing offense, who many wrote off before the season even started, is currently the fifth best in the league. The defense is the best rushing defense in the league and in the top 10 in the points allowed category. And it feels GOOD.

[Slurktan]

Regarding the 2nd "underthrown" ball, replays showed Cutler tossing the ball and then throwing his hands up in a celebratory manner. This was before the flags were thrown and after his ball had just been intercepted. You're telling me he didn't know what he was doing? If a QB is celebrating after his ball was just caught by the other team, he's either mentally deranged or knew he was setting up a PI call with the throw. I know he's been hit a lot so far, but not that much.

Can't it be both? I like the idea that he is insane and crafty at the same time.

[Jaime L]

And if bears trade for someone it will be Mankins or Haynesworth (seeing that Tommie Harris was benched yesterday too).

Oh please do. We'll pay shipping and everything.

Act now and we'll throw in a set of steak knives absolutely free.

[Kalbear]

Throwing the checkdown to Forte/Olsen is a marked sign of improvement for Cutler. This is what he should be doing - doing the dumpoff when he gets pressured and he doesn't have time to throw it deep. His first interception was horrible and old-school Cutler, but otherwise he had a fairly good game. I actually cheered when he threw it out the back of the end zone when no one was open; the old Cutler would have tried to fit it in a tiny crack.

I think he's improving. I don't think he's at an elite level, but there are good signs. And the Packers have one of the best pass defenses in the league; the Cowboys another. Doing well against those two opponents is a good sign.

[Bronn Stone]

So what? Several of Tom Brady's passing TDs in his record-breaking season came from short rinky-dink dump passes to Wes Welker that he turned into big gains for the TD. Several more came from just tossing it in the air and Randy Moss somehow coming down with the ball because of his freakish skill. Should there be an asterisk next to Brady's name in the record books because those passes took little skill on his part?

Sure, every QB gets some plays from YAC on short passes. But I am claiming that the dump off pass is disproportionately used by the Martz offense and that skews the results. I am not even disputing that Cutler has been good (jury is out in my mind), but I am saying that those numbers don't mean as much as they'd mean if they'd been accomplished in a traditional system.

The challenge to a QB in the Martz system is making the proper reads quickly enough to survive, and so far Cutler is getting it done. Barely, in the case of the Cowboys game. Next Sunday night will be a real test. The Giants are either a really bad team or a decent team that has been playing really bad football. They'll be fired up intending to prove the latter.

[Stego]

Irony, meet Stego.

...

It's not my fault that you need everything spelled out for you.

One should form their opinions on who the good teams are and what the playoffs will look like in November. One does not need any more years to know that Cutler sucks.

[Arakasi]

Cutler is basically Favre 2.0. Gifted as hell but fully capable of making bone headed decisions. Not a bad thing to be though. And from what I'm reading on FO and ESPN insider people are pretty impressed with how he's playing. Haters unfortunately are gonna hate.

[Demonblade]

...

It's not my fault that you need everything spelled out for you.

One should form their opinions on who the good teams are and what the playoffs will look like in November. One does not need any more years to know that Cutler sucks.

....

You really have no idea that you've just contradicted yourself there, huh?

[DanteGabriel]

Regarding the 2nd "underthrown" ball, replays showed Cutler tossing the ball and then throwing his hands up in a celebratory manner. This was before the flags were thrown and after his ball had just been intercepted. You're telling me he didn't know what he was doing? If a QB is celebrating after his ball was just caught by the other team, he's either mentally deranged or knew he was setting up a PI call with the throw. I know he's been hit a lot so far, but not that much.

I'm going by replays of the catch side of the ball, where it didn't look like contact occurred until the ball was on its way in the air and the receiver was turning to try to get to it.

You're asking us to believe, in the fraction of a second that Cutler had to make a decision there, that he noticed his receiver was being mugged and heaved a short pass to take advantage of it. It's a much more likely explanation that Cutler underthrew the ball and the contact occurred while it was in the air.

[Kalbear]

It's odd; Cutler is in his 5th year, and is progressing pretty close to what you'd expect. Last season was a pretty horrible year for him, but the prior years he was on par to become one of the best QBs ever in terms of his progression vs. how long he'd been in the league. Very, very few QBs advance as quickly as he has shown to do.

There's no convincing Stego of this, so I won't be trying. That being said, Cutler has I think grown up some after last year. He turned down endorsement deals because he said 'he wasn't deserving of that' yet and wanted to focus on his play. Against two solid teams he's looked good if not insane, and he looked better against Detroit than Favre did. It's still a young season, and chances are teams are going to get better when they have more film on him, but he's gotten better significantly in two areas: his decision making in the red zone, and his ability to handle pressure and make the right play. Those two things are going to help quite a bit. His mechanics are funky as hell, he still throws off his back foot too often, but he also checks down far better.

On an unrelated note - my wife is on board with me on the OLine thing, which is awesome. Both of us are convinced that everything good about an offense comes from a good OLine, and dominant OLines means a dominant team regardless of the QB. This isn't always the case; Manning has made good with horrible Olines for a while now, and Brady did great with a meh OLine. But teams like Seattle, KC, Denver - they've been able to get by with a meh QB and just do fine because of the protection. I think this was the case with Minnesota last year as well, and now they're showing signs of age.

This year, I think you'll see that kind of improvement with the NY Jets, Atlanta and Miami.

[Swordfish]

Damn. The Steelers are good. Just watched the game on tape delay.

[Trebla]

Dez Bryant took Roy Williams out to dinner recently in lieu of the whole shoulder pad incident. Dez invited the offense while Roy invited the defense as well. I think the young fella now wishes he had carried those pads.

Dez Bryant gets 54k dinner bill

:lol:

[Jaxom 1974]

Dez Bryant gets 54k dinner bill

:lol:

That's made of pure awesome! :lol:

[Bronn Stone]

Dez Bryant took Roy Williams out to dinner recently in lieu of the whole shoulder pad incident.

Dez Bryant gets 54k dinner bill

Makes me (and Baby Jesus) cry to think of all of the great wine that ended up in the gullets of cretins who'd have preferred Coors Light.

[Lightning Lord]

....

You really have no idea that you've just contradicted yourself there, huh?

He didn't. He said Cutler sucks, because we have four previous years of data on him to back it up. He said form opinions on teams when we have more data for the year.

That said, Cutler seems to be having a much better year to date. If he keeps the interceptions down, he'll be in top ten QBs in the league, no question.

[Demonblade]

He didn't. He said Cutler sucks, because we have four previous years of data on him to back it up. He said form opinions on teams when we have more data for the year.

Saying somebody sucks whose team is 3-0 and then saying that wait until November until you make a decision is hypocritical. How does Cutler 'suck', anyway? Was he solely responsible for the Broncos' mediocrity? It is such an idiotic statement to make, and then saying in the very next sentence to not rush to judgment of the Bears is even more idiotic.