UK Politics: Iain Duncan Smith introduces death penalty for poor people

[The Marquis de Leech]

The thing about upper houses is either that they have too much power and abuse the system (Australian Senate, or the House of Lords pre-1910) or they are just a glorified excuse for political patronage and don't do anything beyond the occasional grumble about fox hunting before heading off to dinner (Canadian Senate, the old NZ Legislative Council pre-1950, or the House of Lords post-1910). Unicameral parliaments work just fine.

[Liffguard]

In the end, we are not notably better governed than countries with elected second chambers, so the argument is basically just not founded in fact.

On the other hand, I wouldn't say we're notably less well-goverened either.

I think you could make the upper house more fit for purpose with a few changes. Have them appointed by a non-partisan committee rather than the PM. Give them a long term of service rather than for life, say 10, 15 or 20 years. Also maybe have a percentage split between various professions and areas of expertise. So a X% of them have to be medical doctors, X% from the military, science, business, social work etc. I like the idea of a house of experts unconcerned with electioneering better than I like its current implementation.

[john]

A system of experts overseeing the workings of parliament sounds horribly unrepresentative.

I'd rather have a powerful elected senate or just abolition. But to be honest an antiquated system of patronage makes perfect sense in a country where you have a monarchy and some of the most ridiculous parliamentary traditions in the world.

[Rorshach]

Democracy seems to be, by its very nature, prone to produce short-sightedness. I don't think an upper house in any form would change that, unless we change democracy itself.

[The Iceman of the North]

On the other hand, I wouldn't say we're notably less well-goverened either.

That's debatable, just compare the social policies in Britain to those of the rest of Western Europe. Inequality in Britain is dismal, almost as bad as the hell hole across the pond.

[The Marquis de Leech]

That's debatable, just compare the social policies in Britain to those of the rest of Western Europe. Inequality in Britain is dismal, almost as bad as the hell hole across the pond.

That isn't actually the fault of the House of Lords. UK inequality was steadily declining until the end of the 1970s:

http://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/blog-uploads/2008/02/uk-inequality.jpg

The current inequality is the fault of She Who Shall Not Be Named, and her successors.

[Hereward]

Or alternatively, the current inequality is the fault of the end of well-paid industrial, and increasingly clerical, jobs as a result of computerisation and globalisation, with a side order of punitive tax rates on the middle class and the end of grammar schools.

I'll get my coat.

[Alex.]

I trust everyone saw that the Mail on Sunday defrauded a food bank and stole food from poor people? This might be a new low

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

No questions asked! Except for all of the questions they detailed in the article, of course, but those don't count.

[mormont]

I trust everyone saw that the Mail on Sunday defrauded a food bank and stole food from poor people? This might be a new low

They returned the food. Which makes it OK, apparently.

Surely the real story is that someone asked for help and a food bank shamelessly gave it to him! In a church, no less! What is the country coming to? The Christian thing to do is demand documentary proof. I'm sure we all remember the parable of the Good Samaritan, who, seeing a man lying beaten by the side of a road, first conducted a thorough background check with all the appropriate authorities.

ETA - don't miss next week's daring Mail on Sunday expose, when our man places a hoax 999 call to reveal how the emergency services are wasting taxpayer cash.

[Alex.]

I'm honestly surprised they didn't just throw it in the bin

[Commodore]

https://twitter.com/Hilton1991/status/460189041477316609

@Hilton1991
YouGov Euros poll has UKIP in lead for the first time:

UKIP 31%
Lab 28%
Con 19%

[KAH]

Nah. The Lords serves a useful purpose. While their unelected and therefore unrepresentative status means their power should indeed be limited- as it is- I think it's good to have one chamber that isn't answerable to the electorate, and therefore isn't swayed in their decision-making by the needs of electioneering and playing to the crowd. They're a tempering influence.

Isn't that what Sir Humphrey Appleby is doing? Why do you need another House for that?

[Derfel Cadarn]

https://twitter.com/Hilton1991/status/460189041477316609

These are euro elections. No one takes them seriously - the handful of people who bother voting in them do so to put the shitters up the main parties.

[polishgenius]

Since it didn't seem to make an appearance in the topic at the time, I hope we all saw Farage getting ruined in an interview the other day.

[mormont]

It's not been a good week for UKIP, has it?

And now their repeated defence that all parties harbour racists (in these numbers?) is coming apart as their deputy chairman (Neil Hamilton, really) admits that they're after BNP voters. Decent BNP voters, of course. People who're not-racist-but. Or to put it another way: UKIP is aiming to be the respectable face of racism, if such a thing can ever be said to exist.

[SeanF]

Judging by opinion polling, it's been a very good week for UKIP.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I think the problem is that the UKIP wears these sort of attacks as a badge of pride: look, they say, we are a threat to the Establishment. And their core voters pat themselves on the back about how "politically incorrect" they are.

It's also a crying shame that distaste for the EU (which I fully understand) has been hijacked by the fringe-right.

[Hereward]

Distaste for the EU is pretty much universal in the Conservative Party as well. Though I suppose you could be referring to them as the fringe right, too. I suppose it's inevitable really that a popular policy that sensible politicians regard as economically catastrophic will be default be picked up by demagogues. I see no real alternative.

[Free Northman Reborn]

So is there no place in today's world for people who don't want to assimilate with foreign cultures and pretty much wish to live in a culturally homogonous society, not going out to bother people from other cultures, but not interested in mixing with them either?