UK Politics: Iain Duncan Smith introduces death penalty for poor people

[Derfel Cadarn]

So Nigel Farage just kicked Nick Clegg's arse in the Big Euro Debate. This according to Yougov's online opinion poll. 57%-36%.

As a non-Briton this was the first time I saw Farage in action and heard his views, and I must say I agree with every single opinion he expressed.

I'd vote Ukip if I was British.

Thank God you're not. And Clegg's popularity tumbled after he sold out.

[williamjm]

Nick Cleggs not overly popular.

He's probably pretty happy to find 36% of people agreeing with him on something, it's probably been a while since that's happened.

[Lummel]

...I'm a little iffy on whether I want to stay in the EU, I don't mind the loss of a bit of sovereignty, it's the economic case I'm curious about.

the economic case? Didn't we learn from the experience of EFTA? It is not as though being in the EU prevents UK businesses from pursuing exciting opportunities in Brazil or China were after time and careful nurturing they might be able to develop a market for their products as significant as Belgium currently is?

He's probably pretty happy to find 36% of people agreeing with him on something, it's probably been a while since that's happened.

:laugh:

[SeanF]

The party breakdowns are interesting.

Unsurprisingly, UKIP and Conservative voters were overwhelmingly pro-Farage. However, 42% of Labour voters, and 20% of Lib Dems also gave the debate to Farage.

[SeanF]

So Nigel Farage just kicked Nick Clegg's arse in the Big Euro Debate. This according to Yougov's online opinion poll. 57%-36%.

As a non-Briton this was the first time I saw Farage in action and heard his views, and I must say I agree with every single opinion he expressed.

I'd vote Ukip if I was British.

I can't imagine myself voting otherwise for the Euros.

[Talleyrand]

I've always planned on voting no in the referendum and after listening to several debates my vote hasn't changed just my opinion of both sides - just two annoying smug pricks shouting at each other trying to be the loudest.

And the poll after this EU debate being pro-Farage means little. Clegg would have to cure both Poverty and AIDS before people started trusting him again

[Alex.]

Also, Europeans are cooler than British people on the whole so we should definitely stay mates with them

[Commodore]

replay of debate

[Usotsuki]

The privatisation of Royal Mail took place amid huge public interest and the shares rose by 38% to 455p on their first day of trading, representing an increase in value of £750m for the new shareholders.

The NAO report concluded that the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills was too cautious when setting the sale price of 330p per share.

"The department was very keen to achieve its objective of selling Royal Mail, and was successful in getting the company listed on the FTSE 100," said Amyas Morse, head of the NAO.

...

The spending watchdog also noted that a small number of shareholders, designated as "priority investors", had made significant profits from the increase in the sale price following the privatisation.

The government had allocated larger proportions of their shares orders to these 16 investors, in the belief that they would form part of a stable long-term and supportive shareholder base.

However, almost half of the shares allocated to them had been sold within a few weeks of the IPO.

Margaret Hodge, chair of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), said the sharp rise in Royal Mail's share price since the sale showed "the department had no clue what it was doing.

Coming next week the NAO report on how Vince Cable achieved the objective of heating his office by burning the Turner collection.

[Alex.]

So I just flicked through the latest yank politics thread and wanted to say something:

Even you lot who are awful Tories aren't so bad, relatively. Cheers.

[Maltaran]

There are only two countries in the world which have unelected religious leaders in Parliament - Britain and Iran. Go disestablishment!

[Horza]

Perfection.

[The Marquis de Leech]

There are only two countries in the world which have unelected religious leaders in Parliament - Britain and Iran. Go disestablishment!

Antidisestablishmentarianism is pernicious.

[Mazigh]

There are only two countries in the world which have unelected religious leaders in Parliament - Britain and Iran. Go disestablishment!

Iran would probably be a prosperous country if it wasn't constantly been ruined by the West and if the West stopped trying to impede it's progress Even with all the good work Ahmadinejad and Rouhani have done and are trying to do it is pretty hard to progress when most of your neighbors want nothing more than your complete and utter destruction and more sanctions and embargoes placed upon them than on Cuba

[MinDonner]

OK, that's Iran's excuse. Why do we still have bishops in parliament, again?

[The Marquis de Leech]

OK, that's Iran's excuse. Why do we still have bishops in parliament, again?

Because the House of Lords is the Lords Spiritual and Temporal: the Bishops are the spiritual side.

Really, this is just part of a wider issue: abolish the House of Lords, and be done with it.

[polishgenius]

Nah. The Lords serves a useful purpose. While their unelected and therefore unrepresentative status means their power should indeed be limited- as it is- I think it's good to have one chamber that isn't answerable to the electorate, and therefore isn't swayed in their decision-making by the needs of electioneering and playing to the crowd. They're a tempering influence.

[mormont]

Nah. The Lords serves a useful purpose. While their unelected and therefore unrepresentative status means their power should indeed be limited- as it is- I think it's good to have one chamber that isn't answerable to the electorate, and therefore isn't swayed in their decision-making by the needs of electioneering and playing to the crowd. They're a tempering influence.

I've never understood this argument. At best it smacks of paternalism (the desires of the proles need to be 'tempered' by wiser heads). At worst it's nonsense, since the Commons can overrule the Lords anyway, the modern Lords is not at all free of partisan politics, and the record shows the Lords are just as inclined to mess things up as make them better. For every occasion on which the Lords have wisely restrained the demotic urges of the Commons, there's two where they've stood up for entrenched Establishment interests in a quite embarrassing way.

In the end, we are not notably better governed than countries with elected second chambers, so the argument is basically just not founded in fact.

[john]

The more persuasive argument is that an unelected upper house can be left largely powerless thereby letting the lower house get on with the business of governance while still theoretically offering some form of representation to the poor derided upper class.

[polishgenius]

I've never understood this argument. At best it smacks of paternalism (the desires of the proles need to be 'tempered' by wiser heads). At worst it's nonsense, since the Commons can overrule the Lords anyway, the modern Lords is not at all free of partisan politics, and the record shows the Lords are just as inclined to mess things up as make them better. For every occasion on which the Lords have wisely restrained the demotic urges of the Commons, there's two where they've stood up for entrenched Establishment interests in a quite embarrassing way.

It's not about 'proles' and wise heads- I'd be absolutely for reforming it so the Lords are chosen from all sorts of backgrounds. I don't think they should be hereditary or owt. I don't think it's a perfect institution, I just look at the state of politics were both houses just spend the whole time playing election games and it's irritating. Sure, they still play partisan politics in the Lords but it's not the constant blatant pandering to the electorate that goes on in the Commons.

So either have people chosen for life, or have, for example, much longer terms - say 15-20 years- but limit it to one term.