Small Questions v 10023

[RumHam]

I can't remember ever having read anything like that.

On another note, the wiki states everywhere that Jaime and Cersei were 9 when Tyrion was born. Is that ever stated in text? Because with Jaime and Cersei born in 266 and Tyrion supposedly in 274, that should be 8, not 9. So where did the 9 come from?

Just this that I could find.

It was when I visited Casterly Rock with my mother, her consort, and my sister Elia. I was, oh, fourteen, fifteen, thereabouts, Elia a year older. Your brother and sister were eight or nine, as I recall, and you had just been born.”

[Consigliere]

I can't remember ever having read anything like that.

On another note, the wiki states everywhere that Jaime and Cersei were 9 when Tyrion was born. Is that ever stated in text? Because with Jaime and Cersei born in 266 and Tyrion supposedly in 274, that should be 8, not 9. So where did the 9 come from?

Could not find anything in the text that definitively places Jaime and Cersei's age at either 8 or 9. The only quote I could find was in Storm between Tyrion and Oberyn.

“Your brother and sister were eight or nine, as I recall, and you had just been born.”

[The Crow's Third Eye]

So I am finally reading the Hedge Knight (:D) and have some questions.

1) Why does Lord Caron have a silver harp on his shield? Thats not his sigil is it?

2) Would the Lord Tully who enters the first tilt be Hosters father? The timeline always confuses me. Or would it be Hosters Grandfather?

3) I always thought there were two Dragons that hatched weak and sickly during the reign of Aegon III, but Ser Arlan claimed to have seen only one when he went to KL. Did they die separately then, and were they ever bonded to a rider?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So I am finally reading the Hedge Knight ( :D) and have some questions.

1) Why does Lord Caron have a silver harp on his shield? Thats not his sigil is it?

2) Would the Lord Tully who enters the first tilt be Hosters father? The timeline always confuses me. Or would it be Hosters Grandfather?

3) I always thought there were two Dragons that hatched weak and sickly during the reign of Aegon III, but Ser Arlan claimed to have seen only one when he went to KL. Did they die separately then, and were they ever bonded to a rider?

I can answer two of your questions :)

2) Walder Frey tells us that he has outlived 4 Lords Tully of Riverrun, and names Edmure the fifth Lord of Riverrun during his lifetime. Walder was born in 207 AC.

The Hedge Knight takes place during 208 AC. This Lord that Dunk saw in the lists would be Lord #1.

Hoster, obviously, was #4. So between the Lord Tully of Riverrun we met in the Hedge Knight and Hoster, were 2 more lords of Riverrun.

In the Sworn Sword and the Mystery Knight, a new Lord of Riverrun is mentioned. A boy of 8 (in 211 AC, meaning he was born in 203 AC). This would be Lord #2 that Walder Frey was referring to.

The third Lord of Riverrun that Walder would mean, is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Should the Dunk and Egg stories indeed continue into Aegon's reign, no doubt we'll hear about him as well.

So the Lord of Riverrun Dunk saw jousting in the Hedge Knight would be Hosters great-grandfather.

As to 3).It could be that Ser Arlan only saw one, because only one was outside when he was present in KL...The fact that Ser Arlan only saw one, doesn't have to mean that the other one was already dead. But the one Ser Arlan saw did die the last, as it was the last dragon alive at some point before it's death.

Seeing as how the last two dragons were stunted and small, they would most likely not have been bonded to by anyone, as they were not fit to ride. At least no rider has been mentioned.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Just this that I could find.

Could not find anything in the text that definitively places Jaime and Cersei's age at either 8 or 9. The only quote I could find was in Storm between Tyrion and Oberyn.

“Your brother and sister were eight or nine, as I recall, and you had just been born.”

I found that one too, but I suspect Oberyns memory may not be as precise here, though.

Doran is 52 in 300 AC, and Oberyn is 10 years younger than Doran, and past his forties in 299 AC (meaning in 299 AC he's 41 or older). There are two options. Either Doran is 52 turning 53 in 300, or he was 51 turning 52 in 300 AC.

This would put Doran's year of birth in either 248 or 247 AC, and thus Oberyn's in 258 or 257 AC.

Jaime was 15 in 281 AC and 17 in 283 AC. It is unknown whether Jaime was 15 turning 16 in 281 AC, or 14 turning 15, meaning he and Cersei were born in either 266 AC (14 turning 15 in 281 AC), or 265 AC (15 turning 16 in 281 AC).

This means that when Jaime and Cersei were 8 or 9, which would have been in either 273, 274 or 275 AC, Oberyn would have been 14 or 15 years old in either in 271, 272, or 273. The only overlapping year here would be 273 AC, meaning that Oberyn would have been 15 at the encounter (being born in 258 AC), and Jaime and Cersei 8 years old (having been born in 265 AC).

That would mean that Jaime was 15 turning 16 in 281 AC, when he became a KG knight, and 17 turning 18 in the year he slew Aerys. This also means that Cersei, who was 18 when she married Robert, would have married Robert in late 283 AC or early 284 AC.

That would also mean that Tyrion was born in 273 AC, and is 25 (or 24, and he'll turn 25 later in the year) in aGoT. That also means that the horse he had (received as a gift from Jaime on his 23rd birthday) when he got captured by Catelyn, had already been in his posession for 2 years.

I am just doubting on how thrustworthy Oberyns memory is though. Can we trust his word about all of this?

[RumHam]

So I am finally reading the Hedge Knight ( :D) and have some questions.

1) Why does Lord Caron have a silver harp on his shield? Thats not his sigil is it?

Some people use personal arms, like Robb Stark using the wolf's head instead of a side view of a wolf. From the Wiki:

• Lord Pearse Caron was one of the outstanding participants at the Tourney at Ashford. He was a harper, singer and knight of renown, and had his personal arms emblazoned with a silver harp.

I am just doubting on how trustworthy Oberyns memory is though. Can we trust his word about all of this?

Probably not. There's a SSM where he says that people aren't always so precise saying things like that.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Probably not. There's a SSM where he says that people aren't always so precise saying things like that.

That's what I was thinking, though I was hoping I was wrong. Oberyn later on says something like that there would have been an age difference of 5 or 6 years between himself, Elia, Jaime and Cersei, which would have been 7 or 8, if Oberyn's earlier words were correct.

So how does that put us with placing Tyrion's year of birth then?

[Allyria Winterborn]

Some things we can be certain of, like Brans year of birth (he turns 8 in 298, so we can conclude he was born in 290). But Edmure, we can't be certain, apparently, so whoever edited his page should not have guessed a year and presented it as fact, IMHO, but rather should have placed a +/- sign in front of the number.

Related to that thought, is there a page on the wiki where the calculations are made for the birth years? Because if not, I could make one, and whenever there is a year which isn't easy to calculate (for example Catelyns or Lysa's birth year) I could explain it on there and place he link to that wiki page. That would also be helpfull for, for example, Edmure's age.

What do you guys think? Does it already exist, or doesn't it and should I make one?

I haven't seen such a page and I think it would be a good idea. Or the calculations could be discussed in the "Discussion" section of each page.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I can answer two of your questions :)

2) Walder Frey tells us that he has outlived 4 Lords Tully of Riverrun, and names Edmure the fifth Lord of Riverrun during his lifetime. Walder was born in 207 AC.

The Hedge Knight takes place during 208 AC. This Lord that Dunk saw in the lists would be Lord #1.

Hoster, obviously, was #4. So between the Lord Tully of Riverrun we met in the Hedge Knight and Hoster, were 2 more lords of Riverrun.

In the Sworn Sword and the Mystery Knight, a new Lord of Riverrun is mentioned. A boy of 8 (in 211 AC, meaning he was born in 203 AC). This would be Lord #2 that Walder Frey was referring to.

The third Lord of Riverrun that Walder would mean, is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Should the Dunk and Egg stories indeed continue into Aegon's reign, no doubt we'll hear about him as well.

So the Lord of Riverrun Dunk saw jousting in the Hedge Knight would be Hosters great-grandfather.

As to 3).It could be that Ser Arlan only saw one, because only one was outside when he was present in KL...The fact that Ser Arlan only saw one, doesn't have to mean that the other one was already dead. But the one Ser Arlan saw did die the last, as it was the last dragon alive at some point before it's death.

Seeing as how the last two dragons were stunted and small, they would most likely not have been bonded to by anyone, as they were not fit to ride. At least no rider has been mentioned.

You're assuming the lordship passed from father to son each time. But consider how many kings Pycelle served.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You're assuming the lordship passed from father to son each time. But consider how many kings Pycelle served.

That is true, that's the assumption that I made. I'm working on a Tully timeline though. Should I encounter anything that points into the direction of a brother having inherited, in place of a son, I'll post it :)

[CosimaistheHottest]

Had we heard about Jon Arryn's nephew Elbert before Sansa and Littlefinger's chapter?

[RumHam]

Had we heard about Jon Arryn's nephew Elbert before Sansa and Littlefinger's chapter?

Yes, he comes up when Catelyn is talking to Jamie about how Ned had spared her the details of Brandon's death. Right before she lets him go.

[Roddy Darwin]

He is me mentionned in ACoK:

"He[Ethan Glover] was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn's nephew and heir."

That is in Catelyn VII, when she talks with Jaime.

[Ser Leftwich]

He is me mentionned in AGoT:

Quote:

"He[Ethan Glover] was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn's nephew and heir."

That is in Catelyn VII, when she talks with Jaime.

This quote is not from AGoT, it is from ACoK.

[Roddy Darwin]

This quote is not from AGoT, it is from ACoK.

Yup, my bad. I was trying to be quick and botched it, and yet I still got ninja'd by RumHam.

Anyway, there is at least another mention, though not by name:

Jon was an old man even then, older than their father. An old man without an heir. His first two wives had left him childless, his brother’s son had been murdered with Brandon Stark in King’s Landing,

ASoS, Catelyn I

[CosimaistheHottest]

Thanks. I was just wondering about this. If Jon Arryn really was involved in some schemes, I wonder if his own heir(Elbert) was married/bethrothed before Aerys got to him.

[-Ghost-]

Can someone change the front page of the wiki? I'm sick of seeing that ugly little monster every time I go there.

[RumHam]

Can someone change the front page of the wiki? I'm sick of seeing that ugly little monster every time I go there.

I would think, it being a wiki and all, that anyone could change the front page of it. Isn't that sort of the idea?

[mindchap]

So I am finally reading the Hedge Knight ( :D) and have some questions.

1) Why does Lord Caron have a silver harp on his shield? Thats not his sigil is it?

Congrats, those are my favorites. :)

Some people use personal arms, like Robb Stark using the wolf's head instead of a side view of a wolf. From the Wiki:

• Lord Pearse Caron was one of the outstanding participants at the Tourney at Ashford. He was a harper, singer and knight of renown, and had his personal arms emblazoned with a silver harp.

Probably not. There's a SSM where he says that people aren't always so precise saying things like that.

And just to add HERE is his heraldry page.

[Dany Girl]

Do we know how Tywin felt about Varys? I can't imagine he trusted him, but he never tried to get rid of him either?